GOD (Hive Bee)
05-11-02 04:54
No 307279
      How to find local sassafras trees  Bookmark   

swim has been hunting down trees that grow in his local area.
he thought it might bee a good idea to start a thread about how bees can go about finding the tree in their areas as well.
Swim first went to a bookstore and found a feild guide to north american trees.
That gave a broad, general description as to where to look.
Next he went on the web and did quite a few searches using sassafras and the name of his homestate (plus millions of variations) and found several localities that are actually named after the tree (usually a pretty good indication that it grows abundantly there)
After that, he started calling up nurseries and was given little bits of information that way.
Conservatories yeilded even further information, but that was only through people who actually had an active interest that worked there.
Swim starts this thread in hopes that other bee's will give assistance and ideas as to how bee's can go about actually locating the tree in nearby areas (provided theyre lucky enough to live close to 'em)


My mom tells me Im good lookin'!!!
 
 
 
 
    pandemonium
(Hive Addict)
05-11-02 07:25
No 307324
      mittens and tridents  Bookmark   

This ought to help...

sorry mods, that pic was toooooo big...

 http://ostermiller.org/tree/sassafras.html   

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/commontr/sassafra.htm

Used to have a range map, can't find it. very common SE USA. Going looking a tad bit farther west this year, and soon too. if you know about squirrel woods, that is where I will look, old growth hardwood forest, they leave that type of growth in belts in much of the farmable US. Same places you flush quail from in the winter.wink Lots of federal lands, forts as well as parks, allow firewood harvesting, by permit.

Fight Terror! - support your local Alchemists, Brewers, and Cultivators Guild!
 
 
 
 
    handsfull2
(Hive Bee)
05-11-02 08:30
No 307333
      funny thing  Bookmark   

while  scouting my hunting lease in the south east last year I noticed the plant was everywhere ,this was first showed to me by a hunting buddy who said he liked the tea or something and I did'nt pay it much attention ..

maybee swim should look into this a little closer ....
by the way it was mostly found growing in the clear cuts,and the sides of logging roads.

  "why say something that will only make you look smarter then you are"
 
 
 
 
    pandemonium
(Hive Addict)
05-11-02 08:42
No 307335
      Verrry Interesting  Bookmark   

That is WAYY cool handsfull2, cause it propagates heavily by runners is the impression I have. The areas you describe getting an extra dose of sun, likely generates a vigorous network of runners fast, unless I am mistaken that is what one wants, is that network of runner roots and the small shrubby trees, intead of chopping down a patriarch.

There is no relation to sassy quality and age of tree is there?

Fight Terror! - support your local Alchemists, Brewers, and Cultivators Guild!
 
 
 
 
    Amicus
(Newbee)
05-11-02 19:52
No 307454
      Easy ident  Bookmark   

There was a thread by GuySmiley a while back about this. THe best advice there was to go to a nursery an LOOK at a tree. The pictures dont do it justice. The tree looks healthier thatn most and there are ONLY ONLY three leaf shapes. an oval, and then an oval with one notch in it, like a mitten. And an oval with two nothes, symetricaly. All will be seen on one tree. But like i said even though you WILL know it when you see it. You will not be sure abuot the trees that arnt sassafras. False positives and shit, untill you really see the tree. So go to a nursery.

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious"
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Bee)
05-11-02 20:01
No 307456
      youngin's  Bookmark   

pande-
from what swim has gleaned from tse, the young ones should have a higher concentration of oil, which is a good thing for a few reasons:
- ya dont have to chop/maim/kill to get the goods, pulling out a yearling (up to about 4 ft tall) will actually help the critters along (a few more will pop up in its place next year)
- the little ones can bee pulled out by hand (supposivly) which will make life much easier as opposed to having to lug equiptment and yank with a truck
- tugging by hand is less invasive, plus the rootbark is less prone to slide off the root and bee left in the ground
- one does minimal damage to the root system by taking the little ones


My mom tells me Im good lookin'!!!
 
 
 
 
    pandemonium
(Hive Addict)
05-11-02 21:53
No 307485
      Hmmmm  Bookmark   

Perhaps our little neighborhood could use a sassy tea festival, to go with traditions like catfish day, milo festivals, and in the ozarks down south they even have "sucker fests"...some chatting with the nice ladies at the historical society could plant that thought...

My grandad was addicted to a candy, made with sassafrass...horehound also, wink

The bark itself is as legal as the free air outdoors, hmmmmm.....I BET that settlers and Indians carried that tree west to their settlements, since it has SUCH a history of use as flavoring and tonic, LOL...

Fight Terror! - support your local Alchemists, Brewers, and Cultivators Guild!
 
 
 
 
    ClearLight
(Hive Bee)
05-11-02 23:23
No 307510
      all over  Bookmark   


 This tree is all over the s.e. u.s.  You just can't mistake that three lobed leaf for anything else once you see it... looks like a bad dinosaur track...

Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Bee)
05-11-02 23:43
No 307521
      yeah, on the eastern side, it reaches all the way ...  Bookmark   

yeah, on the eastern side, it reaches all the way up to Ontario Canada!  Its not as abundant as the southern states, but its there.

My mom tells me Im good lookin'!!!
 
 
 
 
    diogenes
(Hive Bee)
05-12-02 23:25
No 307733
      Sassafras  Bookmark   

Sassafras grows wild and abundently around here.The old timers used it to make some kind of tea and root beer.Jimson Weed (Str. Datura)also grows like crazy and just wait for it to rain at the right times of the year and you'll have shrooms out the ass. Mimosa pudica also seems to do very well on it's own so that just puts me to wondering how Mimosa hostilis would do if planted at different places and left to grow wild.
Peace Out!cool
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Bee)
05-13-02 01:15
No 307753
      bee respectful of your environment!!!  Bookmark   

seeing as how the mimosa hostilis from brazil is reported to bee higher in alkaloid content than the mexican variety, one may assume that taking this species and growing it further and further away from its natural habitat may decrease alkaloid content.  Mind you that the differances in alkaloid content is at this point simply net lore as any two plants- even grown side by side will have differences.
A word of caution: swim doesnt want to bee your conscience - but taking plants from one region and releasing them to grow 'wild' in other areas that they are not endigenous to can bee VERY detrimental to the environment. 
  PLEASE do not do this!!!!!
  Im sure that if one were so inclined, they could figure out a way to grow what is needed for their own personal use without having to resort to disrupting their local ecosystem.

My mom tells me Im good lookin'!!!
 
 
 
 
    diogenes
(Hive Bee)
05-13-02 16:02
No 307939
      changing ecosystems  Bookmark   

Let's see, we now have fire ants,africanized honey bees,armadillos,coyotes,monkeys seen in a swamp not to far from here and a cuatlmundi none of which are indigenous to this territory and that's just the fauna the none native flora is so abundant that it's rediculus but anyway I understand what you're saying.Too bad more people aren't enviromently conscience.
I almost forgot about the wallabies that were found not too far from here.They're damn sure not indigenous.
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Bee)
05-13-02 16:51
No 307954
      you can tell me to shut up now.  Bookmark   

I know ya said ya hear me, but its important to understand: although there may bee quite a few different introduced 'cultivar' running loose in your area, one never knows where the weak link is.  When dealing with the environment, one is dealing with a complex interconnected system.  Simple causality doesnt apply here.  Introduce the wrong species- and IF it effects the right (read: wrong) specie(s) within that system the wrong way, it can create a huge ripple effect that probably wont bee immediatly apparent, but can cause serious problems further down the road.
 
Like I said, I appologise for preaching, I know how irritating it can bee to have some asshole (especially one you dont know) try and tell you what they think is wrong or right.  The only reason I am doing this is because I believe alot of people number one arent even aware that doing this sort of thing can cause a problem and number two, if they are aware- it usually isnt their top priority to pay attention to it, especially when they see every other asshole doing as they please without a second thought.

like I said, I hope Im not coming off like Im lecturing or holyier than thou- I certainly am not.


My mom tells me Im good lookin'!!!
 
 
 
 
    diogenes
(Hive Bee)
05-13-02 16:59
No 307955
      understanding  Bookmark   

3'rd line down. 8'th and 9'th words over.wink
Peace Out!
 
 
 
 
    kid_trippin
(Newbee)
05-13-02 18:55
No 307996
      Go to your local nursery  Bookmark   

If you really don't think you can find one, go to your local nursery.  Most have sassafras albidum trees and you can get a first hand look at them before you go foraging (just in case you have any doubts about what they really look like).  Maybe even buy a few and start a sassafras tree farm smile

Resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.
 
 
 
 
    Amicus
(Newbee)
05-13-02 19:47
No 308019
      Why didnt i think of that?  Bookmark   

Why didnt I think of that?

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious"
 
 
 
 
    goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
05-14-02 00:55
No 308145
      way ahead of you on the farming idea  Bookmark   

now timber owners in the Southeast will have a crop to harvest between their sawlogs and their pulpwood.  Sassafras trees love to grow in cutovers.  The first two things to grow back are sassafras and gum trees (both root colonizing.)  If you are uncertain about what you have found, rip open one of the leaves and you will catch a faint odor of sassafras oil.  If you're still uncertain, pull the tree out of the ground and you will be overwhelmed with the smell of the oil. 
 
 
 
 
    Beeman
(Hive Bee)
10-27-02 05:41
No 373104
      So what are you saying  Bookmark   


Used to have a range map, can't find it. very common SE USA. Going looking a tad bit farther west this year, and soon too. if you know about squirrel woods, that is where I will look, old growth hardwood forest, they leave that type of growth in belts in much of the farmable US. Same places you flush quail from in the winter. Lots of federal lands, forts as well as parks, allow firewood harvesting, by permit.



What exactly can I do with those little fuckers I've been cutting down for nearly the past two years??

well . . shit! !   i didnt knowcrazy  tongue

Im going look at more pictures,, this is crazy!

  
 
 
 
 
    Jonah
(Hive Bee)
10-27-02 16:42
No 373226
      uhm.  Bookmark   

Im not active steam distiller, but i do know that an easy way to find sassafrass trees if you have doubts is to crack the stem and smell the place where it was broken.  It will have this bad-ass sassafrass smell.  Like candy or root beer.  you'll know it when you smell it.  great stuff.  i hope this helps you identify some.

-j.
 
 
 
 
    jimwig
(Newbee)
10-27-02 20:17
No 373242
      you don't even have to bend over - just crush/rub ...  Bookmark   

you don't even have to bend over - just crush/rub a few leaves together in your palms - the smell is unique - not quite sassafras like the roots but unique. sorta lemony...

HA - if you can please resist destroying the entire stand of trees - use a chain or chain hoist and/or your vehicle bumber to quickly extracate the entire tree - roots and all.

i understand there is a very small amount of sassafras oil in the leaves/stems - anyone have the answer?
i mean if you're there and have the tree you might as well make a whole pot.

round and round the fire we danced
into the night and with the dawn
everyone had found the light
 
 
 
 
    GOD
(Hive Addict)
10-28-02 03:26
No 373439
      Not very volume and time efficient to do it that ...  Bookmark   

Not very volume and time efficient to do it that way.  Oil content in leaves and wood is minimal.  Rootbark!
BTW, this is a LAST resort.  Sass is out there.  Find it quick! (and bee smart about it)
  It still is advisable to at least give this a shot sos ya know you can bee self-sufficient if/when the need arrises.  ALOT of work if one is looking for some quantity.

Loriel... because Im worth it!
 
 
 
 
    Jetson
(Title Addict/Eraser)
10-29-02 22:21
No 374223
      ...  Bookmark   

ok, so exactly(well you don't exactly have to be exact) how much oil could one extract from the average 4' tree, roots and all?  anyone have any roundabout ideas?

the devil is so lonelymad
 
 
 
 
    Jetson
(Title Addict/Eraser)
10-30-02 17:35
No 374524
      hmm...  Bookmark   

now there's a good idea.  fuk cutting the shites down and mashin them up to distill the bark and shite just tap them collect the sap and distill.... hmmmmm....  reminds me of a school field trip swij took a long long time ago to a place where maple syrup came from... mmmmm....  syrup....

the devil is so lonelymad
 
 
 
 
    goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
10-30-02 20:39
No 374592
      it's not really sap  Bookmark   

Sassafras trees don't sap up when you cut them.  considering the trees don't really smell like sassafras when you cut them, I doubt you can get oil out of them like a maple or pine tree.  Digging up the roots is probably the best option; just be sure to leave a couple pieces of root in the hole to recolonize the plant.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use being a fool about it.
 
 
 
 
    Jetson
(Title Addict/Eraser)
10-31-02 16:33
No 374988
      ...  Bookmark   

aww damnit there ya go goiter,  funkin up swij's fun...  no that's good to know though.  hah,  least before jetson goes out tappin all the sassy trees on the hill tongue

the devil is so lonelymad
 
 
 
 
    ChambeRed
(Hive Bee)
11-02-02 04:33
No 375589
      I don't get it,you all afraid of a little ...  Bookmark   

I don't get it,you all afraid of a little chemistry?I've been waiting for someone else to bring it up but since no one has....take another route yo!,I don't know about everyone else but I'm a chemist(wannabee)not a botonist,and you sure wouldn't catch me digging up and steam distilling tons of sassy roots when I can just take a couple extra synthetic steps instead.I have 5lbs. of pyrokathechin(catechol) here(whew merlin was dead-on no misstaking the hospital smell)and it's very cheap and nonwatched so learning misstakes are no problemo and from it you can go to safrole or piperonalcooland while not easy the steps are not too difficult and the reagents not too hard to get to justify digging up fucking roots for gods sakecrazy.A bunch of so called chemists scared of a little chemistrytonguewink.

Bee's don't die,we just multiply.
 
 
 
 
    goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
11-02-02 06:51
No 375628
      what are you bitching about  Bookmark   

Is a pansy ass chemist afraid of breaking a sweat while doing some manual labor?  We already know a method that works, and we don't mind putting some fucking effort into things that will save us a couple of bucks and keep our names out of some chem companies records.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use being a fool about it.
 
 
 
 
    pupilage
(Stranger)
11-02-02 07:08
No 375634
      Since when  Bookmark   

is distilling an organic compound from its source not true chemistry? The Karma thing is what is driving this thread. Why add your name to a list somewhere when with a little nature hike one can keep ones karmatic cool.
This botanical route is just clean fun.

"Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." Satchel Paige
 
 
 
 
    ChambeRed
(Hive Bee)
11-02-02 19:53
No 375779
      Bitching  Bookmark   

Good one goiter and I admit I don't know much about steam distilling sassafras rootbark but it seems so impractical dealing with such industrial quantities of rootbark for a hobbyist's amount of safrole compared to taking a few more synthetic steps.Chemistry is my lifeblood a little more of it can't hurt.I just think bee's should know this is an option and a viable one at that,I know I don't intend to bee caught off gaurd when sassy oil is near immpossible to get or sassafras trees extinct from overharvesting.Peace,Chambered.

Bee's don't die,we just multiply.
 
 
 
 
    goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
11-03-02 03:48
No 375897
      Sassafras is root colonizing  Bookmark   

You can't overharvest sassafras trees, as pulling them out of the ground just creates space for another one to grow back in its place from the roots left behind.  Gum trees do the exact same thing, except I can't think of one solitary thing a gum tree is good for.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use being a fool about it.
 
 
 
 
    cthulhujr
(Hive Bee)
11-03-02 19:50
No 376098
      sassafrass patch  Bookmark   

Swim don't know anything about sassy use. But bets a sassy patch would be easy to start, in about any shady area east of the rocky mountains. Seems like the stuff will take over a little clearing in the woods in a couple of years and bounce right back if it is bush hogged down, kind of a weed-tree really.
 This is only a guess, but could be worth a shot for some. It's very doubtful a sassy harvest would even arouse suspicion in rural folk, it is a traditionally used plant. And some may be happy to see it gotten rid of. That is unless the sassy harvester looked and acted suspicious.
 A patch of it in an old lot in town probably wouldn't even get a second glance, in most areas.
 Fence rows and shady roadsides along the edge of timbered areas are full of the crap, in farm country.

Iń-R'lyeh! Cthulhu fhtagn! Iń Iń!
 
 
 
 
    Jetson
(Title Addict/Eraser)
11-04-02 17:27
No 376362
      ok...  Bookmark   

i've been waiting for someone else to bring thisup but nobody has so... hey ]yo!]  now how the fuk can you call yourself a fukin chemist you hack?  fukin take another route eh?  yeah ok bub so then you tell me what you're going to do when you can't take that other route then?  oh that's right you'll be sitting wit yo thumb up yo ass cause you don't know shite about steam distilling essential oils but that's something any chemist, organic or fukin not, could tell you how to do.  and fuk man it doesn't even take a chemist to do that.  yeah a bunch of so called chemists!!!  if you're so above all else then hit the fukin bricks man!!! 

the devil is so lonelymad
 
 
 
 
    ChambeRed
(Hive Bee)
11-04-02 18:53
No 376382
      It was a joke man :-o :-P .  Bookmark   

It was a joke manblushtongue.

Bee's don't die,we just multiply.
 
 
 
 
    Atropos
(Stranger / Eraser)
11-04-02 21:52
No 376426
      Sassafras is an extremely hardy and a prolific ...  Bookmark   

Sassafras is an extremely hardy and a prolific grower.  You will see a stand establish itself in a matter of 5 years to 15-20 foot plants.  It also grows by root division, i.e., an established plant will send out new growth from older surface roots, giving rise to many new trees. 

In many climates, it can be considered invasive, it's hard to keep the plant from taking over.

Most people couldn't tell an oak from a sassafras, and the ones that can generally don't know a damn thing about chemistry.  A lot of farmers and old timers know the tree, but really, in this day and age, most people are clueless about anything that isn't setting between them and the idiot box.

If the concentration is around 6%, and the average yield is around 85%, then around 23 grams of safrole is in a pound of the root bark.  That's hardly a shameful amount of safrole per pound, if you consider a few pounds can go in the average 2-5 liter distiller.

A mature tree can be taller than 50 feet, and 3 foot diameter, with roots as big around as your arm and bark on them up to an inch thick.
 
 
 
 
    Sifty
(Newbee)
11-05-02 08:01
No 376617
      Sassafras Albidum Native Range  Bookmark   



The Native Range of Sassafras in the US

from http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_2/sassafras/albidum.jpg.

Thought this might interest some,

-Sifty

"...Come with us and leave your earth behind..." - Chem.Bros.
 
 
 
 
    Jetson
(Title Addict/Eraser)
11-05-02 15:50
No 376707
      hah.....  Bookmark   

23grams to a pound on the average doesn't seem too damn shabby at all now does it???  fuk don't even have to worry about any middle men either...  well 'cept the tree fairy's and wood nymph's...shocked

nice range map also...

the devil is so lonelymad
 
 
 
 
    Neron
(Hive Bee)
11-07-02 07:39
No 377260
      Juniperus virginiana  Bookmark   

from http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_1/juniperus/virginiana.htm

Native Range of Juniperus virginiana in the United States

from ../rhodium/chemistry /safrolefaq.html
Representative volatile leaf oil composition of J. virginia var virginiana (USA), eluted from a DB-5 gas chromatography column. Data expressed in % of total oil, the oil derived from steam distillation of the FOLIAGE (so no digging-up of the roots is required).

   safrole - 10.9%  mp:~11░ bp:232-234░
   cis-isosafrole - 6.7%  mp:~8.2░ bp760:253░ bp100:179.5░



Does anyone have any experience harvesting J. virginiana as a source of safrole/isosafrole?  This seems like it would be less work than digging up and shaving rootbark.  Just harvest a few of the low hanging branches, rip off as much of the leaf/twig material as you can, steam distill from there, or just do a few batches of MeOH/leaf slurry in a blender, combine, filter, evap, and distill/freeze from there.


Can placebos cause side effects?  If so, are the side effects real?
 
 
 
 
    ChambeRed
(Hive Bee)
11-08-02 01:28
No 377451
      Now that sounds awsome.  Bookmark   

Now that sounds awsome.Safrole and Isosafrole in the same harvest and without digging rootssmile,with more than 17% of the oil being good stuff!.Anyone have any experience with this oil?sounds too good to be truecool.looks like your screwed if you live in the soggy northwest like swimtongue.

Bee's don't die,we just multiply.
 
 
 
 
    hCiLdOdUeDn
(Hive Bee)
11-08-02 04:23
No 377532
      I believe less than 5% of the leaf weight is leaf ...  Bookmark   

I believe less than 5% of the leaf weight is leaf oil, and of that oil only 17% is good oil. After rough calculations it would take 26 pounds of leaves just to get 100mL of good oil. More like 50lbs of leaves if yields are normal.frown

But on the other hand 50lbs of leaves could potentialy make ~50grams of MDMA.HCl or $10,000. wink

Sink or SWIM
 
 
 
 
    goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
11-12-02 07:57
No 378926
      steep pricing  Bookmark   

Are you pushing pills out retail to make $10,000 on 50g?  I see that as 50g as only $4,000 worth of wholesale product.  Nickel and Diming homemade gear is a surefire way to get yourself incarcerated.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use being a fool about it.
 
 
 
 
    hCiLdOdUeDn
(Hive Bee)
11-13-02 02:57
No 379115
      Nah, swim doesnt sell MDMA.HCl....  Bookmark   

Nah, swim doesnt sell MDMA.HCl.... Just thats the estimated street value (e.g. $20 a dose)

Sink or SWIM