10-26-02 06:46
No 372765
Ok, I'm in need of some ethylamine. A lot. Can anyone think of an OTC product that can be hydrolyzed or otherwise easily converted into ethylamine? Are there any pure OTC sources? I tried a substructure search on chemexper.com, but no luck. Any thoughts?
Who is that masked man?
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 07:21
No 372774
propionamide with OCl- will give ethylamine
(propionic acid + ammonium hydroxide)
(propionic acid can be had from MEK with OCl-)
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 07:28
No 372777
btw, is ethylamine watched? can it be easily purchased (as HCl salt) by joe-schmoe?
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 11:53
No 372826
in the US at least.
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 19:35
No 372910
Why? obviously there are many analogs, but any controlled substances directly use this in their synth? (tryptamines, maybe?- aurelius doesn't spend a bunch of time in this area)
(Stranger)
10-26-02 19:52
No 372922
I think ive seen it mentioned in a few synth's before. Search rhodiums site and you should find what its used to make.
Besides drug synthesis, Its aslo used to make explosives.
(Newbee)
10-26-02 21:03
No 372948
Aurelius -
"(propionic acid can be had from MEK with OCl-)"
would mind posting the details to this oh so sort after synth?
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 21:10
No 372950
Yeah, it's used in several MDE synths. I didn't know it was used in explosives manufacturing, though, that's a new one on me.
Aurelius- Do you have any procedures, links, or refs for those synths?
Who is that masked man?
(Hive Bee)
10-26-02 21:50
No 372955
propionamide with OCl- will give ethylamine
hoffmann degradation/rearrangement (can't remember which one, but it does happen)
(propionic acid + ammonium hydroxide)
../rhodium /eleusis
just use the acetamide procedure, it should theoretically run the same way
(propionic acid can be had from MEK with OCl-)
haloform rxn. everybody just thinks about testing for methyl ketones, but it does have synthetic application. it's kind of nice because it doesn't oxidize C=C bonds.
(Hive Bee)
10-27-02 02:27
No 373032
So really all one would have to do is react Ca(OCl)2 and MEK, and distill out the propionic acid. Then use the propionic acid just as you would use acetamide in the hoffman rearrangement to get methylamine, but you would get ethylamine instead. Looks great, Aurelius.
Who is that masked man?
(Newbee)
10-27-02 20:08
No 373240
oh thankyou thankyou
now just one more DAQ- if you would be so kind
the "haloform rxn" you mention ---- is that "(Hypohalite version)" reaction reference in the Eulesis piece???
(Hive Addict)
10-27-02 22:24
No 373316
I think he is talking about an acid chloride???DOn't know though? Such as thionyl chloride or POCl3??
VL_
So much game I could sell a hooker some pussy
Vl_
(Hive Prodigy)
10-27-02 22:24
No 373317
The haloform and hofmann hypohalite degradation both share the use of hypochlorites, but they are different reactions.
The haloform uses calcium (or sodium, etc) hypochlorite with a methyl ketone to form a carboxylic acid salt and chloroform. Thus MEK gives sodium propionate and chloroform.
The sodium propionate is acidified and the propionic acid distilled off for recovery.
If the amide of the propionic acid (propionamide) is made, then more hypochlorite can react with it to induce the hofmann hypohalite degradation, forming ethylamine and CO2 gas.
As long as you dont pay through the roof for hypochlorites, and as long as you dont need tons of ethylamine, this is a good route to this compound with OTC chemicals.
PrimoPyro
(Hive Bee)
10-27-02 22:56
No 373329
Hey PrimoPyro, instead of acidifying and heading straight to the distillation, you can cut down the volume a bit. the propionic acid formed on acidification will now be in the chloroform. separate off the chloroform/acid mix. now distill. (of course you can dry the mix before hand, but that's up to the person distilling)
(Hive Bee)
10-28-02 09:26
No 373521
propionic acid/sodium propionate is used as preservative in food and should be available.
(Hive Bee)
10-28-02 21:06
No 373723
true, aurelius forgot about that.
10-29-02 19:50
(Rated as: insignificant)
(Hive Bee)
11-27-02 21:58
No 383990
aurelius' post above isn't quite correct
Propionic acid + Ammonium hydroxide -> ammonium propionate, not propionamide
however, any of it's esters used in a similar manner will gives amides to be used in this synthesis.
(Chief Bee)
11-27-02 23:45
No 384008
Ammonium propionate dehydrates to propionamide at high temp. You can also fuse the acid and the ester with Urea.
(Hive Addict)
11-28-02 05:32
No 384142
do you have a procedure for those two pathways? mostly just need the temperatures/reflux times for the two reactions. thanks again Rhodium!
../rhodium /amide.p
(Chief Bee)
11-28-02 11:35
No 384268
Check out Vogel's book at my page too.
(Stranger)
11-30-02 09:36
No 384851
the comlete book of ecstacy
chapter 9
LSD synth
../rhodium /tcboe/c
"the other syntheses is diethylamine. It too makes you a marked man. Clandestine chemistry to the rescue. Diethylamine is a side product in the synthesis of ethylamine from ammonia and ethyl iodide which can be maximized with with a mole ratio of 1 to 2 respectively. It can be freed from the other two hydrochlorides (ethylamine, bp 16°C and triethylamine, bp 89°C) by basifying with excess 25% NaOH followed by fractional distillation (diethylamine, bp 55.5°C). "