Hay (Stranger)
02-27-03 04:38
No 412139
      Direct Halogenation of Amphetamines via KBr/OXone?  Bookmark   

Yes, BOB realize there has been recent discussion regarding halogenation via KBr/Oxone. Having read through these posts, BOB would like to clarify the following points:  Can the KBr/Oxone method of halogenation be used to directly brominate an amphetamine, or can it only be used to brominate the propenylbenzene? What is BOB getting at? He would like to know if he can brominate 4-MMA or if he must first brominate anethole. If it is indeed possible to directly brominate the 4-MMA via KBr/Oxone, how can BOB ensure that the 4-MMA is fully dibrominated (on the 3 and 5 position), rather than monobrominated? It is essential to BOB that the 4-MMA is dibrominated rather than monobrominated.  Back in July 2000, under "Subject: Injesting HBr Salts.. WHY NOT??" user G_Pig refers to problems with forming fully dibrominated PEA (post No 31085), though I would assume he was working with H202 rather than oxone(?). Having experienced partially iodinated PMMA (a splice of ~5-20% iodinated, 80-95% uniodinated PMMA) and its colorful, eye-opening splendor, the prospect of fully DIBROMINATED PMMA (3,5-dibromo-4-methoxymethamphetamine) shows some real promise as a potent, mescaline-like psychedelic amphetamine, having LOW active doses of 5-10mg (!) [refer to G_Pig's post No 27670 & No 28425 regarding this matter]. The partial iodination of PMMA (NOTE TO DUMMIES: PMMA = 4-MMA) resulted in a DRAMATIC increase in the potency and quality of its effects, and thus I do not doubt G_Pigs claims of great psychedelic potency for 3,5-dibromo-4-methoxymethamphetamine. This said, it should then possible to convert one gram of 4-MMA (5-10 doses of crappy pseudo-ecstasy crap drug), to one gram of 3,5-dibromo-4-methoxymethamphetamine (1000-2000 doses of mind-expanding, kaleidoscope-vision goodness) via simple KBr/Oxone bromination (or does he have to first brominate the anethole)??? BOB is excited. Thank YOu.
  
 
 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
02-27-03 05:06
No 412145
      halogenation  Bookmark   

Can the KBr/Oxone method of halogenation be used to directly brominate an amphetamine, or can it only be used to brominate the propenylbenzene?

You can very likely use it do directly brominate an amphetamine, especially one which is methoxy-substituted. Where did you see a propenylbenzene being halogenated with KBr/Oxone? That would mostly create 1-phenyl-1,2-dibromopropane...
 
 
 
 
    Chromic
(Synaptic Self-Mutilator)
02-28-03 07:21
No 412483
      Huh?  Bookmark   

Ok, I tried out the monobrominated PMA and it was crap--it just made for a good stimulant, that's it. Are you SURE the dibrominated stuff is good? What literature reference do you have?!?

I thought the 4-methoxy group was too big to have any fun effect on the serotonin receptors?!?

Your writing style sounds a lot like V_L.
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
03-07-03 05:09
No 414480
      No  Bookmark   

NO, but he did sample the goods.  ANd he apparently had similar affects. One day yall will listen.  And when that happens you will see the light.  Doubting before doing is foolish.

Start thinking more like a chemist and less like a criminal
 
 
 
 
    GC_MS
(Hive Addict)
03-07-03 05:30
No 414484
      magic  Bookmark   


Ok, I tried out the monobrominated PMA and it was crap--it just made for a good stimulant, that's it. Are you SURE the dibrominated stuff is good? What literature reference do you have?!?




I'm not surprised that the mono-brominated version didn't give you what you might had hoped for. However, by extrapolation, I see a possibility for hallucinogenic activity of the 3,5-dihalo PMA. There is some structural relationship with mescaline.
There are two *magic* combination possibilities for the phenyl substituents:
- 3,4,5 (like mescaline)
- 2,4,5 (like TMA-2)
I advise the following book: Hallucinogenic Agents, by RW Brimblecombe. Contains alot on these things, especially explaining why some substituents are great and others are not etc.


Abusus non tollit usum
 
 
 
 
    Chromic
(Synaptic Self-Mutilator)
03-07-03 06:03
No 414491
      4-position  Bookmark   

The 4 position is lots of hallucinatory fun when it's small and electronegative. Who knows, TMA-2 and mescaline are definitely good rides... and they've got a 4-methoxy... but their dosage is super-high compared to DOM, DOB.
 
 
 
 
    Hay
(Stranger)
03-15-03 23:06
No 417397
      OTC chlorination....  Bookmark   

Could 4-MMA be chlorinated using one (or both) of the following procedures:
1)Mixing sodium hypochlorite (bleach) and HCl to form chlorine gas, which is then bubbled into DCM. The 4-MMA is then mixed in with the solution of chlorine & DCM, the free chlorine atoms subsequently attaching to the 4-MMA provided adequate time and stirring. Could 4-MMA HCl be used or would it have to be in its freebase form? Is this procedure feasible?

2)Mixing HCl with H202 and DCM, then thoroughly stirring to allow chlorine to go into the DCM. The top polar layer (H202, H20, HCl) is then decanted, leaving what should be a layer of DCM with chlorine in it. The 4-MMA is then mixed in with this DCM, alloted adequate time and stirring to be fully cholrinated. Could 4-MMA HCl be used or would it have ot be in its freebase form? Is this procedure feasible?

Any information regarding the viability of either of these procedures, or other OTC halogenation methods, would be quite helpful ~ !
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Adickt)
03-16-03 02:34
No 417454
      Synth  Bookmark   

1: likly, but keep the DCM cold. No the HCl salt won't disolve. Remeber to dry the DCM solution before use (after you have disolved the chlorine) ekspect something like 1M solution.
2: too slopy, gass the HCl throug the DCM solution.

Byt why are you trying this. The methamphetamines is almost alwayes non halucinogenic
 
 
 
 
    Hay
(Stranger)
03-17-03 04:08
No 417843
      3,5-dichloro-4-methoxymethamphetamine  Bookmark   

BOB can verify that iodinated para-methoxymethamphetamine IS definetly hallucinogenic, hive bee G_PIG claimed back in 2000 to have successfully dibrominated para-methoxymethamphetamine to yield a highly potent (2mg-10mg dose) psychedelic amphetamine. Thus it seems very likely that cholorinated para-methoxymethamphetamine will similarly alter effects and dosage of the drug (quite like the strong simlarities between DOB,DOI, and DOC). By chlorinating para-methoxymethamphetamine(or using any halogen for that matter, with the notable exception of astatine)on the 3 and 5 positions, the basic mescaline (or TMA-2) skeleton is immitated, which very will may be the cause of such a dramatic increase in potency and  hallucinogenic activity. Consider 2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine, a rather sucky/boring high dosage (upwards of 100mg) drug. However, once the DMA is brominated to yield 4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine, we suddenly see a dramatic increase in psychoactivity of the compound, as our once boring DMA has been brominated to DOB, one of the most potent, powerful hallucinogenic compounds known to man. Similarly, by halogenating stinky 4-MMA, it is possible to yield a powerful, truly hallucinogenic substance. I am outstanded that there has been so little interest expressed in this area. PMMA! Yes, BOB said it, and its not so scary. Just because some kids in Australia overdosed on PMA (or something along those lines) does in no way indicate that a 3,5 dihalogenated PMMA would be similarly dangerous. Of course, there is really nothing that would indicate that such a substance would NOT be dangerous, and so there is left a substantial amount of room for experimentation and innovation in this small corner of chemistry. Thus BOB proposes the synthesis of 3,5-dichloro-4-methoxymethamphetamine; a new psychedelic amphetamine with great potential for hallucinogenic activity and high potency. Other ideas: how about 3,5-dichloro-4-methoxyethylamphetamine? or 3,5-dichloro-4-methoxyphenethylamine? 3,5-dichloro-4-methoxy-N-ethylphenethylamine? So many possibilities, there's always room for speculation.....  THOUGHTS/FEEDBACK???? ------->
 
 
 
 
    hypo
(Hive Addict)
03-17-03 09:53
No 417978
      normal  Bookmark   

> I am outstanded that there has been so little interest expressed in this area.

no that's normal. because the only reliable information
about halogenated PMAs we have is by chromic and that was
in the line of "bromo-PMA is like PMA". sure it's possible
that mono- or di-bromo-PMMA are for whatever reason very
special, but the same could be said about a myriad of other
unexplored molecules.

matter of fact, making bromo and di-bromo-PMMA is work.
you need to do TLCs, melting points and distillations to
caracterise your product. if you think it's worth or if
you want to convince us - go ahead - do the dirty work,
give us the Rf values and boiling points of the bases
and the melting points of the salts. and finally bio assays.
 
 
 
 
    hest
(Hive Adickt)
03-17-03 10:40
No 417994
      Meth  Bookmark   

My point was just that usuak the methamphetamine's don't interact with the 5ht system(the 'halucinogenic' one) but only with the dopamine system (the 'speedy' one). But doo the work and i'll will love to read the bioassay with respect.
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
03-18-03 19:39
No 418674
      PMMA  Bookmark   

Of all the horror stories about PMA i have to say that PMMA is bomb diggity.  I myself perfer it over any other MDMA like drug including MDMA.  It has a very pronunced vibrating lights affect with 120mgs.  It is very empothegewnic.  Honestly e=when swim made MDMA he was not satisfied.  It was not until he synthesized PMMA that he found that feeling that he has always been looking for.  So Any one who talks shit about this compound (Besides Rhodium) Is talking out their ass and not through actual experience.  Hay Knows what he is fucking doing,somewhat and mabyee he will convince everyone of the beauty of this drug.  I shut my mouth about it when i recieved nothing but ridicule on the subject.  Again people were talking shit out their ass.  when will you people listen
VL_

Start thinking more like a chemist and less like a criminal
 
 
 
 
    GC_MS
(Hive Addict)
03-18-03 21:33
No 418740
      PMA/PMMA shit  Bookmark   

The only problem regarding PM(M)A can be found in the sales department. Some assholes substitute MDMA for PM(M)A (as for the poor kiddies in Down Under) and unaware consumers overdose themselves. The lethal dose for PMA seems to be much lower then for MDMA.
But the lethal accidents taken aside, it is "just another amphetamine". STP killed several ppl as well, and this for sure doesn't mean the drug sucks.

Abusus non tollit usum
 
 
 
 
    Vibrating_Lights
(Hive Addict)
03-19-03 03:28
No 418878
      apples and oranges  Bookmark   

Comparing amph's to Meth's like apples and dildos.  How you gona get an apple into a pussy much less make it feel good.  thats all i have to say about that
HeeHaw.
VL_

Start thinking more like a chemist and less like a criminal
 
 
 
 
    hypo
(Hive Addict)
03-19-03 10:01
No 418980
      eeehhhhh.....  Bookmark   

> Of all the horror stories about PMA i have to say that PMMA
> is bomb diggity.  I myself perfer it over any other MDMA like
> drug including MDMA.

who the fuck cares? this thread is about halogenated P(M)MAs.

> Honestly e=when swim made MDMA he was not satisfied.  It
> was not until he synthesized PMMA that he found that feeling
> that he has always been looking for.

great for you. but again: what does this have to do with the subject
at hand?

> So Any one who talks shit about this compound (Besides Rhodium)
> Is talking out their ass and not through actual experience.

right now, you are talking out of your ass. fact: i know people
who have taken PMMA many times and up to the overdose limit.
fact: they like MDA much more. (although they do not regret their
PMMA and PMA experiences at all. it's just that the chapter is
closed and right now there seems no reason to reopen it by making
halo-derivates. you know, that's how collaborative working is
supposed to work: everybody does what he likes to do or thinks
is useful for the profit of the community. (yeah, yeah, i'm not
a commie bastard, but isn't it true?) i say go ahead - make 'em!
(with my little experience, i would recommend that you start with
the bromo compounds, since brominations seem to be the most well
known aromatic halogenations))
 
 
 
 
    Hay
(Stranger)
03-19-03 23:26
No 419177
      Chlorination....  Bookmark   

Thus chlorination of PMMMA will proceed as follows: Chlorine gas (made from mixing sodium hypochlorite and HCl) will be bubbled into anhydrous dichloromethane. Once the dichloromethane is saturated with chlorine gas (having absorbed as much chlorine gas as possible) 4-methoxymethamphetamine freebase will be added to the dichloromethane. This solution (kept on an ice bath) will be stirred for 24 hours to allow for complete (hopefully) DI-chlorination of the 4-methoxymethamphetamine on the 3 and 5 positions, to yield 3,5-dichloro-4-methoxymethamphetamine. Before BOB commences the preceeding procedure, he would like to clarify two points:

1)Does anyone see any problems with using anhydrous trichloroethane rather than anhydrous dichloromethane (bubbling the chlorine gas into the trichloroethane as opposed to DCM)??

2)Any commentary on this method of halogenation?? Any ideas for alternative/superior methods of (OTC) halogenation?? Yes, BOB would prefer to brominate the 4-MMA via KBr and Potassium peroxymonosulfate (oxone!), but cannot due to current unavailability of KBr (frown).

BOB will procede following confirmation of these points. All input, negative/positive, but more importantly ---->USEFUL<----- is, as always, greatly appreciated.
 
 
 
 
    foxy2
(Distinctive Doe)
03-20-03 07:15
No 419325
      Do you know the solubility of Cl2 in each of...  Bookmark   

Do you know the solubility of Cl2 in each of those solvents?
 
 
 
 
    Hay
(Stranger)
03-21-03 01:07
No 419599
      solubility  Bookmark   

Yes, to BOB's knowledge, chlorine is very soluble in both dichloromethane and trichloroethane.....    

BOB simply wants to make sure there are no other reasons why trichloroethane might not be suitable as a substitute for DCM in this procedure
 
 
 
 
    Hay
(Stranger)
03-23-03 18:47
No 420480
      NaCl/oxone  Bookmark   

This chlorination method failed (using TCE)... After further reading it is clear exactly why this method sucks... that said BOB is curious whether NaCl can effectively be used used as a substitute for KCl when halogenating using potassium peroxymonosulfate/methanol--??