09-19-03 04:25
No 459844
Goal: Convert 1000 tablets of MSIR (Morphine Sulfate Instance Release) to Morphine base, or HCL.
For further conversion to diacetylmorphine (heroin). (Note Tried acetylation with MS mother liquid and acetic anhydride, yield dark brown liquid cleaned it up with chloroform, etc…. But everything I’ve read say you must start with Morphine base
Or HCL. So one step at a time, trying to convert the MS to morphine base or HCL.
But just in case:
Question: Does one really have to start with Morphine base or HCL to make
diacetylmorphine?
After researching the-hive followed two threads that seemed to provide the info I was looking for.
I've attached them to this post.
To convert Morphine Sulfate "MS" to its base (Morphine) I tried to do the following:
I added ammonium hydroxide (dilute soln.) in excess to the mother liquid. (Mother liquid was completely saturated MS) 1st problem was what is the actual concentration of ammonium hydroxide (dilute soln.) suppose to be??? The best I could go by was the definition for dilute soln for ammonia which is suppose to be (Molarity 6/L or 102g/L) The ammonium hydroxide I used was listed as 57%, so from there I attempted to dilute it accordingly, basically added H2O @ a 3:1 ratio.
The problem is the morphine did not precipitate well and what did/does re dissolved, however, my problem may have been that I failed to monitor the PH.
So after further reading I think one needs to add NH4OH to the mother liquid until a PH of
9.1 is achieved? Then the mixture is vigorously shaken and placed in a refrigerate over night.
(According to poppystraw)
Question: As the Morphine crystals precipitate will the PH of the mixture change by any significant amount, and if so does one need to continue to adjust it?
Note MSIR is Morphine + H2SO4 + 5H2O a 30mg pill weights 44mg, (remember their hypodermic tablets) in addition they may contain either lactose or sucrose or both.
Best thread on this subject I found so far was:
Post 48274 (poppystraw: "Re: morphine sulfate to heroin hcl", General Discourse)
A post from poppystraw on this thread read:
A)
Morphine sulfate to heroin hcl Bookmark
The following steps should be observed
1) to convert the morphine sulfate to morphine base use minimum amount H2O...filter undissolved pill matter with buchner funnel...then add ammonium hydroxide which will precipitate out the free base morphine
2) next extract morphine base from aqueous environment with toluene/butanol mixture.....if the morphine base is contaminated with other materials....ususally one checks the melting point to determine purity...if M.Pt is low use the toluene/butanol mixture 1:1 ratio...if the melting point is sharp skip the purification step
3) precipitate as tartaric acid (important purification step)
4) finally convert tartrate to free base then use acetic anhydride to convert the morphine free base to heroin,then convert the heroin base to the HCl or sulfate salt
B) he splells it out better but steps 2, 3, and 4 are vauge.
(also he implies I should get 100% purity (no loss, he states "100 pills of MS @10mg/pill yields
1000mg of morphine base) any thought ???)
Re: morphine sulfate to heroin hcl Bookmark
Morphine 90cc
If you wish to convert the morphine sulfate to heroin you must convert the acid salt (morphine sulfate) to its free base.....this is accomplished by first disolving the morphine fron the pills in distilled water, minimum amount....filter using buchner funnel...next very carefully add ammonium hydroxide(dilute soln.) in excess to the mother liquoid...vigorously shaking....a white precipitate is formed....cool the soln in the refrigerator over night to allow maximum crystal growth...filter using buchner.....sometimes reducing the amount of mother liquid is helpful to obtain more crystals of morphine..cool and filter again....the resulting white powder is morphine free base...the above procedure works for the acetate, hydrochloride, and sulfate salts of morphine.....this freebasing procedure is a good source for morphine base however it takes about 100 pills @ 10mg morphine to produce 1000mg of morphine base...one gram...
The tartaric acid purification procedure is used whenever very pure morphine base is required...generally this methid is used when recovering morphine base from poppy straw extract which contains a variety of plant alkaloids...and separation of simular compounds is difficult.....
Now to convert the morphine base to diacetylmorphine, you will need acetic anhydride or acetyl chloride....this is a very common procedure and can be found this web-site under opioids......however, you might view this forum under opium poppy garden....another posting is morphine base to heroin
________________________________________
2nd best post/thread I found was:
2. Rhodium wrote in thread :
Post 209556 (taig: "morphine sulfat -> morphine hcl", Newbee Forum)
morphine sulfat -> morphine hcl Bookmark
From Us Pat 6,054,584 (../rhodium /morphex
"Finally, the morphine free base is precipitated out of the resulting aqueous solution by adjusting the pH of the aqueous filtrate to pH 8.5 to 9.5. Preferably, the pH to precipitate the morphine ranges from about 9 to 9.3, and most preferably is about 9.1"
End of 2nd thread
As my hive name implies I'm serious and will report all findings back the the-hive!!! Please direct me via this post or PM to any additional info or site, etc...
Thank you
Really Serious
reallyserious_signature
(Hive Adickt)
09-19-03 09:33
No 459909
Crosposting ??? Post 459880 (reallyserious: "morphine sulfate to its base or HCL", General Discourse)
(Chief Bee)
09-19-03 16:24
No 459957
Most definitely, the other thread has been closed.
(Stranger)
09-24-03 04:23
No 460652
Anybody have any suggestions.
Come-on some one must have some ideas that I can try?
NH4OH diluted to a PH of 9.1 wixed with Morphine + H2SO4 + 5H2O does this sound right to anyone?
Anyone? Plz if you think it might be close pleast post back, if you think its not post back,
if you can point me to any other info or site that that has info PLEASE Post back.
I reaching, make that pleading for feedback.
Thank you
reallyserious_signature
(Hive Bee)
09-29-03 08:46
No 461604
poppystraw's directions simplified (i HAVEN'T tried this):
1. Dissolve crushed pills in minimum amount of distilled water. Filter with a buchner funnel, keep the solution and discard the remaining pill binder. Add aqueous ammonia (strength isn't important, 5% is good), take the pH up to about 10 or until the freebase has clearly precipitated.
2. Add 1:1 toluene/butanol, dissolve the precipitate. Dispose of water layer. Wash toluene/butanol with a small amount of water if your quality is problematic.
3. Add about 5ml of 1% tartaric acid solution per 100mg morphine. Set aside water layer, extract again with the same volume of tartaric acid solution, set that water aside also.
4. Add aqueous ammonia to the water/tartaric acid/morph mix as before. This time save the freebase crystals by filtration rather than layered solvent extraction.
5. Acetylate the morphine base (can't remember procedure off the top of my head, I think you just add molar equivalent of AA and heat). Heroin base is best for smoking, if the product is for injection or insufflation, carefully salt with minimum aqueous HCl.
That's: morphine sulphate -> morphine base -> morphine tartrate -> morphine base -> heroin base -> heroin hydrochloride
Chloroform would probably be a better option than toluene/butanol.
If you cut that shit when you're done, may karma smite your sorry arse.
(Stranger)
10-07-03 05:28
No 463111
PapaSmerck,
Thanks for the input, but I think the PH level in key or I'm missing something,
step 1. which you listed reads:
1. Dissolve crushed pills in minimum amount of distilled water. Filter with a buchner funnel, keep the solution and discard the remaining pill binder. Add aqueous ammonia (strength isn't important, 5% is good), take the pH up to about 10 or until the freebase has clearly precipitated.
I've tried this sever times with lots of 3 to 30grams of MSIR .1K to 1K pills again content of pills is 30 mg they weight about 44mg (buffer lactose/surcrous. I've getting a very small yield
from step one. And based on the following I should not even need to go on to step 2 (the toluene/
butanol) based on post by morphine90cc:
morphine sulfate to heroin hcl
Morphine 90cc
If you wish to convert the morphine sulfate to heroin you must convert the acid salt (morphine sulfate) to its free base.....this is accomplished by first disolving the morphine fron the pills in distilled water, minimum amount....filter using buchner funnel...next very carefully add ammonium hydroxide(dilute soln.) in excess to the mother liquoid...vigorously shaking....a white precipitate is formed....cool the soln in the refrigerator over night to allow maximum crystal growth...filter using buchner.....sometimes reducing the amount of mother liquid is helpful to obtain more crystals of morphine..cool and filter again....the resulting white powder is morphine free base...the above procedure works for the acetate, hydrochloride, and sulfate salts of morphine.....this freebasing procedure is a good source for morphine base however it takes about 100 pills @ 10mg morphine to produce 1000mg of morphine base...one gram...
The tartaric acid purification procedure is used whenever very pure morphine base is required...generally this methid is used when recovering morphine base from poppy straw extract which contains a variety of plant alkaloids...and separation of simular compounds is difficult.....
which is what I think your suggesting, just is not working. At least not how I'm doing it.
a white precipitate is formed....cool the soln in the refrigerator over night to allow maximum crystal growth
I'm getting a 5 to 10% yield, and no "crystal growth" occurs at all with cooling and time, infact
what does precipitate at T= 5-20 minutes tends desolves back into the solution.
It stated
sometimes reducing the amount of mother liquid is helpful to obtain more crystals of morphine
I an effort to keep the mother liquid as pure as possible my mistake could be that the pill to H2O mixture to too low, the pill matter left behind in the buchner funnel which is abudent and still contains quite a bit morphine, my concern is that the MSIR pill which is M + H2SO4 + 5H2O, is not desolving at the same rates, I obtain a mother liquid which is about 80 ml after filtering (80ml H2O to 10-20g of MSIR.)
Should I be using a higher ratio of H2O to MSIR?
Ideally I should have very little pill matter left behind in fact if it were possible all I would
want in the filter is the 14mg of lactose/surcrouse per pill.
Its probably that simple but I have taken the time to calculate everything: the MSIR pills
are 764.878g/mol of that about 12% is H2SO4, equilivency for H2SO4 is 2:1 when mixing with
NH4OH ( NH3+ H2O-) my goal was to completely nutralize the acid.
Reallyserious
reallyserious_signature
10-07-03 05:31
(Rated as: insignificant)
(Stranger)
10-07-03 05:33
No 463113
ARE YOU KIDDING. What the F___ do you think I going through all this for ? may the drug gods
strike me dead it I were to Cut it.
reallyserious_signature
(Hive Bee)
10-07-03 07:18
No 463133
the reason you use ammonia is that it's unlikely to ever make the solution basic enough to destroy the morph. you can add it in excess - if your stuff is redissolving it may be a weak acid in the binder neutralizing the solution?
sounds like you're not using enough water though, i think you're right. the obvious way to test this is bioassay - take your left over pill solids, eat a fraction of it equivalent to a normal dose for you, and see how much you managed to get out.
(Stranger)
10-18-03 21:42
No 465462
Sorry for the delay in posting, I just got back from Asia, on business. I was somewhat disappointed
how little responses there were. But I do have to thank "PapaSmerck" for his reply.
1st a question which I've seen asked before but not answered, could this be done with NaOH
just as well as NH4OH, If successful the NaOH will bind with the H2SO4 to yield NaSO4 + xH2O
+ Morphine (or is it now morphinate) neutralized Morphine. it going to be a morphine
base right as the crystals are plain morphine no salts in them. (BTW my own testing and
other posts confirm that it if the PH goes too high it will the morphine crystals dissolve
right back into the solution. The question is now how do I get the M out of that PH 9.2
MS+NH4OH solution? Any Ideas, or is that where steps 2, 3 and, 4 come into play? I thought
these steps were only needed if one was going extract their MS from poppies where the mother liquid was not pure MS, as it contains various alkaloids etc...
As outlined by poppystraw:
poppystraw:
2) next extract morphine base from aqueous environment with toluene/butanol mixture.....if the morphine base is contaminated with other materials....ususally one checks the melting point to determine purity...if M.Pt is low use the toluene/butanol mixture 1:1 ratio...if the melting point is sharp skip the purification step
3) precipitate as tartaric acid (important purification step)
4) finally convert tartrate to free base then use acetic anhydride to convert the morphine free base to heroin,then convert the heroin base to the HCl or sulfate salt
Morphine Sulfate vs. Morphine HCl
So I will then add 5% HCL to convert to it hydrochloride, much like “desox” outlined
below. so then I will finally be ready to get back and proceed with acetylating using
AA. Another side note: The only benifit I see in using 4DMAP is faster acetalation
time. If I let it reflux @ so 90 to 100C for 3+ hours I should get the same effect. And
then you have to get the DMAP out. Although I can’t explain why we get such a high
peak at 5.15 min with 4-DMAP with a little one at 4.40 which is the 3-actelylmorphine. I
understand that the 4-DMAP is acting as a catalyst, my question is with time won’t all the
3-Acetyalmorphine complete its acetalating to form 6-acetalymorphine?
So
1. Which is prefered NaOH or NH4OH?
2. what is the true benifit of 4DMAP?
I'm convinced that I had too concentradted solution
Here is a post from EROWID's site by Desox FYI:
Morphine
by desox
----------------------------------------
DOSE : T+ 0:00 20 mg insufflated Morphine (powder / crystals)
T+ 2:30 10 mg insufflated Morphine (powder / crystals)
BODY WEIGHT : 80 kg
After my experiences with snorting crushed up morphine sulfate pills, which were quite disappointing, I asked a friend why nothing really had happened. He told me snorting sulfate salts doesn't work well, since sulfates aren't that good water-soluble and I should change the morphine sulfate to morphine hcl, which is suitable for snorting.
[edit: I checked that solubility matter and it turned out that morphine sulfate is even better soluble in water than the hydrochloride... So to be honest, I have no clue why the crushed pills did barely anything good. Lately I tried them again and they worked just as fine as the hcl.]
I did so and ended up with about 300mg of pure morphine hcl powder. I divided the powder in 15 parts, 20mg each and snorted one of those little bumps. First thing I felt was a burning sensation in my nose, worse than that you get from meth. I was waiting for the effects to begin, but nothing really happened and I was getting disappointed, but then suddenly after 10mins the effects started to kick in.
This gave me a really nice feeling, that typical opiate high. You get relaxed, a little bit euphoric and don't care about nothing. I just sat down, read some magazines, listened to music and watched TV. I snorted the first bump at about 8pm and at 10:30pm I decided to do another little bump to intensify the feelings. I devided one of the 20mg bumps in two and snorted that. This time there were absolutely no pain, I wonder why? :) I continued reading, listening to music and watching TV for a few hours until 3am. Then I went to bed, had that dreamlike state I use to get when trying to sleep on opiates and finally felt asleep at 5am.
The conclusion is, that when you come across some morphine pills, which all are morphine sf, extract the morphine, change it to the HCl salt and snort it. Eating is a terrible waste (I need 80mg oral, but only 30mg nasal) so if you're not into IV'ing snort it.
Extraction is easy:
1) Dissolve crushed pills in water
2) _Slowly_ add _little_ drops of an NaOH solution until the water reaches pH 9. Be sure not to add too much, because then the extraction fails and nothing happens.
3) At pH 9 crystals should fall off, forming a clowd in the water. Put the glass in the freezer for about 10mins and filter out the crystals after that.
What you now have is pure morphine freebase. Changing to HCl salt is easy, too:
1) Dissolve in anhydrous (99%) alcohol.
2) Add 1ml of HCl and shake.
3) Let the alcohol evaporate (do NOT boil!) and you'll have some nice morphine hcl crystals.
4) Have fun.
Exp Year: 2001 ID: 10234
Added: Oct 27, 2001 Views: 10778
reallyserious_signature
(Chief Bee)
10-18-03 22:30
No 465467
1. Which is prefered NaOH or NH4OH?
NH4OH - it is much easier to titrate to the correct pH with a weaker base. If you make the solution too basic, the Morphine will go into solution again.
2. what is the true benifit of 4DMAP?
Not only faster reaction, but also a more complete one - making it easier to achieve full acetylation. With 4-DMAP you might also be able to use milder conditions (lower temp) and still achive high yields, with a minimum of decomposition (something which always happen to some degreee at elevated temperatures).
10-18-03 23:55
(Rated as: off-topic)
(Hive Addict)
10-23-03 00:53
No 466187
Any bee know of a post for de-gakking m.s.contin(perdue-
frederick)or morphine sulfate ER (Endo labs).
They seem to have some of the same polys & surfactants as psuedophedrine such as mcc,wax,possibly peg also.
(Soothsayer)
10-25-03 04:22
No 466615
Hmm, Kapanol is extremely easy to de-gakk, which contains Morphine Sulfate, you just use those new 50micron limited use pill filters, They are truly amazing,
Apparently with Ms, the wax tends to get blocked, but it is not impossible, you have to use alot of water, then let cool, collect the wax from the top, then filter using rollies filters, then run it through the 50micron pill filter,.
It's a bit of work, to get it to the last stage, (5-10 minutes)where it's perfectly clear, but your body seems to have no problem, getting rid of the waxes, if you accidently inject them,.
You pretty much piss it out,.
I couild think of alot worse things to do than this, and from what i have seen, and know, the human body is amazingly resiliant,.
I suggest you start making your own Morphine,
I don't think you'll find that changing morphine into herion, will bring you a considerable profit,
Since you'll probably on pull 80% morphine out of the ms, and get probably a 70% conversion to heroin, which would be around the 80-90% purity,.
Make something stronger,-smile, Heroin only has a 2-5X strength index over morphine,.
i am in the process of writing a real codeine to morphine rewiew, but i am waiting, on a few parties,.
I have heard, that you can make alot, of tasty analogues from codeine,.
A man once told me that there is a lot more out there,
I am not obliged yet, but pm me, if you have any queries,.
hellmarn
it's kind of like making it into a powder, but without powderising it,- if you know what I mean,