10-24-03 19:06
No 466612
Hellman's 3-step Classic (Universal Cure)
Goodevening Bitches and Gentlemen,
This is the end of extraction difficulties for the salts of PSEUDO EPHEDRINE:
Regardless of pill, regardless of country, and most probably regardless of attitude and technique, this is a method to remove the waste of time and money in isolating Pseudoephedrine.
This is long overdue.
Theory:
Isolate psuedosalt in Dh20, basify,add non-polar solvent then gass for cystal, or just freeze final solvent, and watch the pretty crytals drop.
Equipment:
A 1 litre glass jar
A 300 ml glass jar
A container of Naoh
A litre of Toluene/Xylene
1 chinese "lucky" coin of debateable monetary worth(joke)
1 Litre DH20 ( Distilled water )
Cotton wool
2 or 3( the more the merrier) 100ml syringe barrels
1) grind all pills, in a suitable device
a) mortar & pessle
b) sealed envelope with hammer
c) coffee grinder or similar
2) Drop crushed pills into Jar with water 500ml Dh20,
( you know when you make jelly, if you use too much water, it just doesn;t set does it?) The same applies for all the gels, that adulterise the pills,.
Let the bastard sit overnight. At least 12 hours,.
Filter through cotton wool plugged syringes, to obtain a reasonably pure solution which goes back into the now cleaned jar.
It doesn't at all mater what colour tghe solution is, it's all good, and your gonna have a good time,.
With the clear(ish) solution, basify the fuk out of it,<rhod's will put in the calc necessary here,> but it all depends on the inital amount of Psuedo,.
My personal rule of thumb is a table spoon per two grams, I know it's over-kill, but it does not affect yield, if anything it promotes, the break down of all the adulterants, and frees the majority of pseudo that can sometimes be stuck, in the binders,.
Leave this overnight as well, and depending on what pills you use, you will see a few colour changes happen,
i used one that was heavily gakked, with ambi polar gells, blue dye, and in sulfate form, it went from clear to orange to clearish,.
At this point it is also wise to never throw anything out, basify all the shit you previously used, by this i mean the crap that remained in the filter, and your yield will get closer to quantative,.
Once basified, and left for a day at least, it is time to drag it off with non-polar,.
Add your non-polar, say 100ml at first, and add to the heavily basic solution,
So now in your jar, with the basified clearish liquid, that now has a layer of non-polar solvent on the top, lid this and shake the crap out of it.And leave for 30 minutes,.
Bee safe here kids, you know that this substance equals cuffs,
Teat pipette of the top layer, with contains FB Pseuso, and a host of other adulteants, into another clean jar,
Add another 50 mls of your non-polar to you main jar, shake, repeat, leave, and again teat pipette, the top non-polar solvent, into the 300ml jar, along with the other 100ml of fb laden solvent,.
Add another 50 mls to your basic solution, leave this overnight, with should leave the rest of the FB to migragte into the non-polar,.
What you are left with is approx 150-200ml of FB in your toluene/xylene,along with a small amount of crapula,.
Set up your gassing apparatus, and gass for crystals.
Did you remember to keep all of the crap in the filters,?
Just throw it all in, syringe and all if you want, re basify, and repeat the sovent extraction, combine all extractions in the final remaining jar full of non-polar, and gas, gas, gas,.
Haven't gassed before,'
I think it's high time you did,
You will enjoy it, your customes will thank you for it, and everyones body ends up being that little bit healthier,.
Not that you guys really care anyway, otherwise you wouldn;t be taking it in the first place, right?
Drugs do kill, tyou just have to learn it for yourselves,
Think of this like a harm prevention seminar!!,
hellman
it's kind of like making it into a powder, but without powderising it,- if you know what I mean,
(Hive Addict)
10-24-03 19:46
No 466621
I actually tried this b4 and after adding naoh and leaving it for a day the solution turned black and remained that way for the next several days until i poured it out. Any ideas on what went wrong?
It wasn't Me!
(Soothsayer)
10-24-03 22:45
No 466635
It doesn't really matter if it went black,
Just make sure it is extremely basic, then add solvent and gas,
It will work out,
hellmantitus
it's kind of like making it into a powder, but without powderising it,- if you know what I mean,
(Soothsayer)
10-24-03 23:07
No 466638
You will find that when you add your non-polar, after you have let that basic solution stand for at least 12 hours, that it will be sufficiently clear to gas,.
I don;t think the Governments had bees intending to gass, to recover their product, then again, if you were smart(chemically proficient) enough to do this, then why would you bother, on small scale stuff like this,.
But this is a good place to start, and wet your feet,.
I think you will find that the multi-kilo processors are starting a little lower on molecule complexity scale than Pseudo,
I mean when benzaldehyde and toluene, and pool shock are just so easy to get,
hmt's
it's kind of like making it into a powder, but without powderising it,- if you know what I mean,
(arrogant bee of the day)
10-24-03 23:27
No 466639
Before making such claims, have you tried this on all available pills (at least in your area) The blue sulphates you mentioned are of course easily extracted, most of us new this a long time ago, try all the rest.
I'm not fat, I'm just too short for my weight.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
(Of Counsel)
10-25-03 17:32
No 466772
IMHO this technique will work with very clean pills, and not with typical OTC sinus meds. "Universal" is a broad claim, and one I, for one, do not think a universal extraction method really exists given the diversity of gakks and binders.
What steps do you take post-extraction, pre-reaction to remove the polyethylene glycols this technique will extract with the pseduo? How do you remove orange I gak, which will come right over with that much NaOH and that high a pH? How do remove the orange II gaks?
Letting the based solution sit for twelve hours will not make any of these any less likely to be extracted with the pseduo. You are insuring that two of them come with it, in any event.
You do not provide yields, and you do not provide the OTC formulations this method works with. Yet you tout it as universal. I am not persuaded.
ICMOI I
(Stranger)
10-25-03 17:44
No 466774
SWIW still believes the key to universal extraction is in mimicking the body's uptake of the psudo. Have been reading lately about this, still not putting full efort though.
(Newbee)
10-25-03 18:55
No 466781
i dreamt that swim tried to extract the glycols with a hot non polar(usin the theory that ethylene glycol is non polar)then basin the remainin stuff n extractin with non polar again..im not sure if the dream crystals swim got where free base psuedo or not..what does freebase taste like? coz they didnt taste bitter..only dreamt with 1/2 gram
"if i had a nickel for every penny id have a lottle o quaters!"-george turnbog (:o)
(Hive Bee)
10-25-03 20:13
No 466798
so maybe the acidic env of the stomach breaks up the pill, but how does the pseudo cross the villi?
active transport seems out of reach, but what about passive?
osmosis - maybe the ph and salinity of the blood provide the differential which will pull only the pseudo acid salt across a membrane? is it molecule-size related? any lit on ingestion of pseudo FB?
(Soothsayer)
10-25-03 21:36
No 466804
Hmm,
Yes i have tried all, or most of the pills, but this was a long time ago, but not that long,.
hence I suffer no issues, if the police come a knocking at my door,.
But, i will not go quietly into the night, as this is important to me,. And now that i have nothing to fear, i will put more energy into this,.
And you know what they say, they're a bit of you in me, and vice versa,.
I think i might start my own forum, if any tech heads, want to help me with the database, pm, me,.
I will start a topic in the couch forum, today,.
But, prove this technique wrong, if you like,
God, Am i personally responsible for chemistry>?
Chemistry is chemistry, and this is not something which I discovered,.
I have just ordered it, and made it practical.
And all the fucking frustration that I once had, trying to re-invent the fucking wheel, waiting on responses from people who knew, but would never tell,.
So you might as well get a gassing,.
Why wouldn't it work,?
I have seen dark stinky nonpolars, laden with proposterous amounts of crap, but with a gas, and a filter, it is all done,.
Yes, I have tried it on sulfates, and HCL's, paracetamols, which by the way are a tasty price here in oz, even the generic 48 count/ 30mg/500mg paracetamols,.
But yield wise here in australia, that sulfate, the one that you know I am talking about, seems to be of maximum value, that's all,.
Phosphorous acid here, is ridicously easy to get unwatched, i mean $77.00 for 20litres of 85% Phosphourous acid, god,.
Not to mention the glorious tincture suppliers that work with horses,,.
I remember seeing a post here, of a beatiful gassing apparatus using cacl2 and hcl only, with a drying tube made from nylex fitting, and clear pvc tubing,.
That's what i would be doing,.
hellman
it's kind of like making it into a powder, but without powderising it,- if you know what I mean,
(Hive Addict)
10-26-03 00:48
No 466821
Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride is an orally indirect acting sympathomimetic amine and exerts a decongestant action on the nasal mucosa. It does this by vasoconstriction which results in reduction of tissue hyperemia, edema, nasal congestion and an increase in nasal airway patency. The vasoconstriction action of pseudoephedrine is similar to that of ephedrine. In the usual dose it has minimal vasopressor effects. Pseudoephedrine is rapidly and almost completely absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract. It has a plasma half-life of 6 to 8 hours. Alkaline urine is associated with slower elimination of the drug. The drug is distributed to body tissues and fluids, including the central nervous system (CNS). Approximately 50% to 75% of the administered dose is excreted unchanged in the urine; the remainder is apparently metabolized in the liver to inactive compounds by N-demethylation ,parahydroxylation and oxidative deamination.
It wasn't Me!
(Chef d'Equippe)
10-26-03 19:34
No 466943
Just recently Baal was watching a Discovery channel program on how they restore sunken ships for museums,etc...during the restoration process they submerged the salt-waterlogged timbers into PEG(yes the arch-enemy)to remove the deeply imbedded salt laden H2O without damage to the piece, due to PEG's high absorbtion capacity. With that said, I can see where Hellmans cure certainly has credibility from a scientific standpoint, nor do I think Hellman's intentions surrounding the post were to mis-inform the ignorant. If the final extraction solvent contains nothing that can be gassed to a HCL-salt other than pseudo-freebase, then why would'nt it work? Baal is almost finished testing Hellman's method and will certainly report back to this thread with the results. Thinking along those similar lines, running the crappy pills through this same protocol 2x would certainly still be a much more simpler process,plus its far more cost-effective, & with less solvent exposure to boot. In Baals neighborhood, those e-z extracto's prices are way out of hand these days. Those are around $10/gram for pseudo when youre done, a high price to pay for a little convenience. Grampa always said "There is always more than one way to skin a cat".......
GODISNOWHERE
Shoot Narcs, Not Drugs
(Soothsayer)
10-26-03 20:35
No 466955
That's right kids,
It's chemistry, I hope you all enjoy it,.
It is just a shame that no-body has posted it before,
There are alot of bees here that are simply light years above these manipulations, and it leaves me in awe, as it humbles me also,
And that is where i want to be,
Having a look at the Hyperlab, made me realize that i am a fucking nubile ignorant asshole, but I am thankful, that i have removed another lid from the box,.
hellman
it's kind of like making it into a powder, but without powderising it,- if you know what I mean,
(Of Counsel)
10-27-03 08:02
No 467022
Baal-- I'll be happy to see the reports of your trials of the method and hope it works, even if you have to do it twice to get clean pseudo. I cannot explain why PEG and some other polymers seem to come through on water-based a/b's, but they do. I do not routinely gas to get my pseudo from the non-polar, and cannot say that gassing will prevent the polymers from coming over with the pseudo when it is gassed to extract it from a non-polar solvent. I would note that it did not seem to solve the same problem with meth, and I do not think pseudo would be any different in that regard. I'd love to be wrong.
ICMOI I
(Stranger)
10-27-03 08:43
No 467031
While yer at it,
Try grinding yer pills,
adding a HUGE(like a real fucking lot) excess of dh2o
adding some hcl to ph of 2
boil the fuck out of it.
Skim the fluffy whitish,plastic,foamy,spoof looking crap of the surface until no more rears its ugly head.
Make a nice fuel layer balance on top of yer water.
SLOWLY,and with stirring bring the PH up to 12 with the diluted base medium of choice.
Go get shit-faced with some teeny-boppers at the kewlest disco in town.
Come home if ya cant get none.
Loose the water.You figure it out.Back lawn is good for me.
Then follow Ol` Hellmans write-up from there.
Diamonds I tell ya
Diamonds.This was my little secret.Now its our little secret.
Take it for what its worth.
Have a nice night.Ballzofsteel.
(Of Counsel)
10-27-03 09:13
No 467036
Ballz-- -this I will try.
ICMOI I
(Stoni's sexual toy)
10-27-03 09:18
No 467037
Funny, when I said so nobody listened.
I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
(Of Counsel)
10-27-03 10:01
No 467047
Its just the way you said it. I saw the post, noted it, thought of your previous comments about using water and letting it sit for longer periods to give the water activated binders time to fall apart and break down, and thought that if the course I followed didn't work, I would try that.
I of course didn't at the time because you are a chemist, rather than a meth cook, and what do chemists know?
ICMOI I
(esoteric)
10-27-03 13:46
No 467091
It appears to me to be too similar to
ways found lacking 2 or 3 years ago,
at least with what has ben found locally.
Don't thing that the thing we call "PEG" is
the same as the "PEG" used for timber stabilization.
it ain't.
dwarfer
(Soothsayer)
10-27-03 16:16
No 467145
Yeh, ambi-polar adultants, but they won't bind to form a salt when you HCL gass them,.
I mean really, you could just, do it in one pot,
And leave all the pill adultants there, and just pull of the top non-polar,.
Gotta go,
Late for a St Vincent De Paul food voucher!
P.s.
BOS, is telling you no lies, I was going to include the acid burn, but I found that I didn't need to,
Excellent BOS,!!!!!!
Truly Supoib,!
heavengirl
hellmein
it's kind of like making it into a powder, but without powderising it,- if you know what I mean,
(Newbee)
10-27-03 18:28
No 467176
Shucks Hellman,
You sexy MOFOIWhen I say dilute,I mean to make the consistancy of the
goop as thin as water.No mater how much dh20 it takes.
We dont want pancake batter.
Be gentle with your acidification/basing.We dont wish to shock them adulterants,we want to subtly co-erse them adulterants into giving up the goodies.
Give it TIME(especially when you havent been diligent with your grinding) .
Act like a stomach.(<-Dont act like mine,or the whole lot will come flying out of yer pot
)Say you use twelve hours, give it twelve hours.You aint got nothing else to do, now have you?
PH2 seems like a stomachish enough acid.
Boiling may simulate the stomach`s natural agitation,and also seems to help float the crap to the top.
Acetone only need be introduced when re-xtalising.(always recomended)
This will deal with the antisneeze gakk.
Id also suggest for the realy anal retentive ones out there(moi included,so dont be offended),that once you have skimmed your crap,and the aqueous sollution has boiled to clear,Boil it down to a manageable volume,give the aqueous layer a quick wash or two with the N.P you choose to extract with,then basify.
Cooked baking soda does the trick nicely.
This will help negate the need for that troublesome gassing step
and allow one to titrate into Dh20(this could also be washed before evap for xtals if you are super-anal [unlike me])Worked on 12hr/24hr sulphates.Goodluck.
(Newbee)
10-27-03 19:50
No 467191
Edit) Sorry guys, this is a bit vague I know.But hey,it was a dream after all.
Grind pills(gakked up 120s) nice and fine.
Add 2x table salt and grind to uniform powder.
Place in a heat resistant container(saucepan)on low heat.
Add dropwise and slowly with rapid,manual chopstick stirring,some quality white vinegar, to first form a paste and then a thin watery consistancy, like you would a good bechamel sauce.(Reference a good cooking book if you are unsure here)
This will aid in preventing blobs of gakk coated goodies and is a must do.
Once you have a nice watery consistancy,slowly stir in about 20x volume of dh2o and bring to a simmer.
You will now see the crap float to the top.
Skim this crap and save it for home renovation applications(wallpapering ect)
Simmer until the sollution clears and no crap floats to the top.
Let it cool.Set aside.
Place a heap of baking soda into the oven on med heat for 3 hours.
Okeydokey?
Now dilute a heap of this sodium carbonate with dh2o until all is dissolved.
Dilute some NAOH as above.
Add some NP to the sollution with goodies in.- Stir stir stir shake rattle and roll...
Discard NP.Repeat.
Now over a 10 min period add a heap of this soda.
Now add not so much NaOH sollution as above.
Stir stir stir.Shake rattle and roll.
Add adequate fresh NP for extraction.
Let sit for at least 4 hours.
Discard(or not as they say)aqueous layer and any solids that remain in this layer.
Wash NON polar with Brine,water,water.
Evap for FB or use naptha and chill (SWIM first used extra virgin(expensive)olive oil as NP keeping within the theme of things )
OR Add water for extraction.
Add dilute HCl for PH 6 (I dont see why Vinegar couldnt be used to form acetate salt- but dont listen to me.)
Evap and rxtalise.
Now discard the crystals and never even contemplate using them for illicit purposes.
Or,crush and snort some lines for an excellent congestion relief.
Have fun.
Kudos to Hellman for haveing the ballz to try something a little off the wall.
(Soothsayer)
10-27-03 20:54
No 467200
Yes, so the ozzies take the lead, Yipeeeee!
(As if I care), good for us though a bit of healthy competition,
And look what we have done!!!!
Look what is happening,..
Oh, my god, we have progression....!!!!!!!
Well done, and thanks for your supoprt BOS, and everyone else thats about to enjoy the fruits,.
I can;t go back and experiment, as i have thrown in the towel, but I can hopefully offer some theories why this works, and why it didn't in the old days,
I think Dwarfer said this,.
Don't forget, when i told you in a different thread that i got pure FB crystals without the need for gassing or Non-polar, I thought you would take me seriously,.
I think this process works for these reasons:
1) We are giving the pills 12 hours to release
2) And we are diluting the possible gel scenerio, by using a massivly small amount of solvent(toluene) to pull the action from the heavily diluted aqueous Jelly solution,.
3) We basify the crap out of it, yes, slowly, so we can guarentee that nothing hangs on to the Psuedo molecule, free it,
When I based it, I left it for 3 days initially, It went through colour changes, something was changing, i am pretty damn sure that the Pseudo was pulling free from all clingons, Peg,, etc,,..
Then just a matter of a couple of low volume pulls with a non-polar, to sweeten the bitch up,
You know i was going to do that HCL boil, It was clever because, it might release the action quicker, resembnling a more stomachy kind of feel,.
There are alot of subtle variations you could do to this, if you encountered problems,
You could keep increasing the amount of water you are using, and you could also wash the non-polar with some saturated base solution, after you have pulled it,.
You see, if there was a problem in the gassing because the ambi-adulterants were to high in concentration, you can dilute everyting further, I don;t think with any appreciable yield loss,.
Why don;t I post yields, well because I haven;t got any scales,.
This is a beta version, i can see possible improvements by Yes, adding a acid boil, but also, we could utilize microwave chemistry and just add some hcl, to the toluene, and buzz,
I have not personally tested and microwave action, all i know is that toluene is invisible, as it does not vibrate, like H20 does,.
But the important rationalle here is, to release the pseudo from the clutches of the gaaks(I,II,II).
A strong base worked for me,
A strong acid work for Balls,
Something definately happens when the basic solution is left for over 12 hours, the Pseudo comes off,.
I will do a complete write up, once all bees are happy,.
hellman
P.s.
Ballz, little nubile teeny boppers are a treat indeed, but I suggest to you that you give your sister a go,
Sexual Social Repression creates fetish, fetish creates contrast, contrast is a key player in erotica, and stimulis,
Give her 3 points of speed, and you will have the night of your life,
I think you will find this quite a pleasurable high,.
Cheers
it's kind of like making it into a powder, but without powderising it,- if you know what I mean,
(Hive Bee)
11-01-03 20:49
No 468242
ok- blood is slightly basic and somewhat salinated - shouldn't be that hard to duplicate the ph and salinity in h20.
xperiment suggestion:
take both lids off a can o soup. rubber-band a coffee filter on one end.
in another larger container we have a slightly acidic stew of pills (pills in h20+hcl (only enough hcl to replicate stomach ph))
slowly pour h20 with ph and salinity matching blood into the can.
suspend the can so that the coffee filter is slightly immersed in the stew.
agitate the stew gently to ensure max surface area exposure to the coffee filters. do this for 'awhile'.
remove can from top of stew, pour off contents of can and evaporate. theory- the precipitants would be pseudo hcl, nacl, and whatever the h20 was based with.
the saline upper drive the direction of the pull, along with (hopefully) the acidic lower stew doing the 'push' towards neutrality.
h20 + pseudoHCL would cross the filter barrier.
(Soothsayer)
11-02-03 21:09
No 468436
Well, gee, what a great post,
Before i respond,
i hope to god your not serious,
i think you are trying to re-invent the wheel again,
bad, bad
"there's nothing you can sing, that can't be sung"
I went down to the depot of evolution, and ordered the man to supply me enough, to last a lifetime..
(Stranger)
11-04-03 16:39
No 468800
but why dry the baking soda?
I could be confused though
(Hive Bee)
11-04-03 18:18
No 468819
Point of information...stomach acid a is 3%-HCL solution.
(Newbee)
11-05-03 21:39
No 469050
Dont bother with this at all.
It seems to work with a select batch of only one pill type.
Pot luck I guess.
Sorry for the misinformation.
I shall now go and flog myself.
(Of Counsel)
11-06-03 11:54
No 469188
With the clear(ish) solution, basify the fuk out of it... but it all depends on the inital amount of Psuedo,.
My personal rule of thumb is a table spoon per two grams, I know it's over-kill, but it does not affect yield, if anything it promotes, the break down of all the adulterants, and frees the majority of pseudo that can sometimes be stuck, in the binders,.
Leave this overnight as well, and depending on what pills you use, you will see a few colour changes happen,
i used one that was heavily gakked, with ambi polar gells, blue dye, and in sulfate form, it went from clear to orange to clearish,...
Once basified, and left for a day at least, it is time to drag it off with non-polar...Add your non-polar, say 100ml at first, and add to the heavily basic solution,
So now in your jar, with the basified clearish liquid, that now has a layer of non-polar solvent on the top, lid this and shake the crap out of it.And leave for 30 minutes,.
What is your rationale for watiing a day before adding a nonpolar solvent to extract the freebased amines from a heavily based solution? I realize you want to give the base time to work with the gakked pseudo, and time to liberate the freebase and make it polar soluble. That process would continue with nonpolar solvent present over the based fluid. The presence of the solvent would also reduce the concentration of freebased pseudo in the based solution, which might in itself help to liberate additional "trapped" pseudo molecules. Salting the water might also help the amine migrate to the non-polar.
My question is simply whether you have a factual basis for recommending the delay in adding the nonpolar solvent to the container with the basic water/pseudo/gakk mix. Conventional wisdom seems to run in favor of not leaving the pseudo in a strongly basic environment without a solvent for it to elute into for fear of damaging the pseudo molecules.
Is there some advantage to be obtained by allowing the water/pseudo/gakk mix to sit after heavy basing that is defeated by the presence of a nonpolar solvent? My impression is that the nonpolar solvent would absorb any available freebase pseduo as it became available, but would not absorb the amines that were yet to be released by a gakk. In either case, leaving the water mix covered with a third volume of nonpolar solvent overnight should suffice to extract any of the amines that were freebased over the course of a twenty four hour soak. Is there some secret here I have overlooked?
I am trying your cure with a number of Zyrtec D's which are sitting in water and soaking as I type this. I plan to decant the water and base it heavily this evening. I was curious as to why I should wait to add an extraction solvent for a day, although I understand the virtue of leaving the solution covered with a nonpolar solvent for twelve hours to a day. Comments?
mostly harmless
(Hive Bee)
11-06-03 16:52
No 469239
Ballz, you've helped develope this thread so much!
I haven't returned much beecause I thought it was destined for closure. but theres some great ideas here.
You don't need 2 Bee High to follow the goings-on @The-Hive--Just Addikted!
(Soothsayer)
11-06-03 17:18
No 469260
Geez,
Why, leave in Basic solution, for so long?
Well to make sure that pseudo is truly in base, and to damage/ remove other aldultants that change when the ph is altered,.
What happens initially, is that the base, when firstly added, is left for only 20 mins, the gakks appear throughout the polar, and non,
When based for 12 hours, a reaction was taking place, the colours would change, and there was practivally no goo in the non-polar,.
When tried before, without the wait12hr, and the extra base, all the crap wanted to come through,.
I expect that alot of the gels, are being destroyed, in this basing,.
If you don;t let it sit, then it is just another heartache, and you would have achieved nothing,.
This is the sole point that made me write this post,.
It is not theory, that was added later,
I was looking at pure FB crystals, without even doing a non-polar suck, I just evapourated the basic solution, which left sizeable fb crystals, left on the wall of the glass,.
These were collected with a n-p and gassed,.
I think we need to point out that gassing, is where the next crucial step is,. The next point of seperation,.
I am not sure what bos is talking about, but even just me writing this, most probably makes it harder, for every aus bee, So for that I am sorry, ah, the sword of dameclese.
The proceedure unfortunately does work,
A gass will always, let you win,
hm
I went down to the depot of evolution, and ordered the man to supply me enough, to last a lifetime..
(Soothsayer)
11-06-03 17:23
No 469264
I am sure it wouldn't matter that much,.
putting the non-polar in as well, but remember, if those ambipolar adulterants, are not destroyed, or re-arranged, they will make they're way into the non-polar,
If by destroying their abilty to do this firstly, then that is a safegurad,
Most probably, it would not matter,
Most probably,
But why not wait till everyting settled, then do it,
A reaction does take place, after heavy basing, what is happening there, is the next question,.
hm
12 hours is a safety net, to make sure the slow release factor is dealt with,.
I guess an Ideal proceedure would be, just to boil, the adulterants, ala bos, for say 1 hour, this should do the same thing,
It is a matter for experimentation,
My only reasoning, is that something happens when it is left basified for 12 hours, somehing happens, that stops the gels,.
But the theory here is enough, I think for anyone to complete this,.
Lots of water, little solvent, lots of base, then a gass,
The only thing that will fuck this, is if you don;t do a gass,
YOU will not be able to seperate the gaks in the non-polar, from the salts,.
Evapouration, of the non-polar, with hcl, will give, you goo,
Gasing will discimate only the salt ready gaaks, which there are not many, if any of,.
In hindsight, I am tryly sorry, for this info,
But if it means the end of nightmares, then so be it,
If it means thy're a gonna be a hundred and one meth feaks lose, well so be it,
Let the kids decide, how they want to live,
Let them be free to experiment, so they can assess,
what is good for them, and what is not,
For without this kind of freedom, you may make the wrong choice, based upon, an unealistic view on the drug,
It allure is great, but it's reality, it is somoewhat less deisrable,.
hm
You could place any pills into a grinder, basify the crap out of them, l;eave everyting in one pot, then extract with toluene, if you gassed that toluene, you would surely get a happy surprise.
I went down to the depot of evolution, and ordered the man to supply me enough, to last a lifetime..
(Of Counsel)
11-06-03 19:34
No 469312
Thanks for the answer. I was curious why you insisted on the delay before adding the nonpolar and you provided your rationale. I was curious whether you did it for a reason, and you gave me your reason. I'm not challenging your approach, I'm trying it out. I just wanted an explanation of something I was curious about, as to whether it was by design or not.
Thanks for the answer.
mostly harmless
(Soothsayer)
11-06-03 22:14
No 469370
No,
Thankyou you,
I think that, bos, may have encountered problems, because he is not a gasser,
needless to say, there would be alot of alternative ways, to get the goodies, without gassing,
but they must attack specifically the properties of the amine, and leave the gaaks in solvent.
You cannot let the stuff evap, to a salt, you will get goo,
Either gass, or microwave, or find a solvent that boils under that of HCl/water, so that the water in hcl/mix is removed, then crystals will form,
hth
hm
I went down to the depot of evolution, and ordered the man to supply me enough, to last a lifetime..
(Hive Bee)
11-07-03 16:01
No 469531
Please any newbees dont start making more worthless 1%potency shittier-than-pseudodietpill-crank cause thats what you'll get if the rxn even makes it to iodo! This is a waste of:
time: Days=no thanx. Hours=OK. Microway=horay!
water/solvents: lets see, that much water could demolish a KILO+ of dry-matrixes beyond repair. A liter of dH2O could be a lifesaver so don't burn a dollar of water + the water damage costs!
pills:^
well unless your pills don't list any of these ingredients below while stating "No-binders-fillers-etc" on the box (fat chance), or dated a decade ago so you know those waxes-plastics-etc aren't modified for the purpose of preventing such dated procedures:
Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose
Hydroxypropyl cellulose
Polyethylene glycol
povidone
Polysorbate 80
Microcrystalline Cellulose
Candellia Wax
cellulose
carnuba wax
Magnesium Stearate
titanium dioxide
silica gel
So what is wrong with Hellman's procedure other than what was said above? Can think of little that isn't wrong with it. Even if you had easyass pills, it wouldn't make it past the mason jar smoldering its bottum off.
Hellman, hope your not from the good old DEA? Meaning your either grandieur psychotic off something you got outta a working method (or someone elses), just some dumbass who likes to screw w.ppl, or only get the dirtiest "street" grade and refuse to accept that your dope is....From observed officer authored webpages its apparent that DEA or even the brave local "pig" posers like to conjure up something with fatal flaws (harm infliction seminars)then put it on the net implying "I dare anyone to make some pure *whatever*...its like baking a cake" so lots more people get confused and screw up which means more getting killed/prison sentences. Hence their pathetic drug war that they've so obviously declared. Seen such officers write out detailed procedures claiming that RP was soluble in IPA...
"True love" is a thrill
Add a methyl group or two
Get it in a pill!
11-07-03 17:01
(Rated as: incomprehensible)