08-10-04 05:30
No 524548
I think your answers may be found in Post 428410 (geezmeister: "The post-reaction workup: a cook's summary", Stimulants).
mostly harmless
08-10-04 05:51
(Rated as: redundant)
(Hive Addict)
08-11-04 08:44
No 524767
Geez is right.
Just proceed as if you'd just finished a standard issue, garden variety, generic reaction.
There's always something good in those droplets of water that hitch a ride with the xylene in the post rxn NP washes. Might even bee more than you expect.
I think it's located somewhere in his legendary and classic Ker Plunking thread that Worlock (The Tweaker God) explains how adding "as much rock salt as will dissolve" in the acqeous layer after it has been fully based up can help assist in getting your freebase fully moved into non polar land. Post 59240 (Worlock: "Ker Plunking for quality and quantity", Stimulants)
Or it might also be at Worlock's old alkaline site now housed under rhodiums collection of chem-relevant pages.
Something to the general effect of it "taking up the space" the remaining freebase has been and giving it nowhere else to go except to the NP.
I thought his name was Schickelgruber!
(Hive Bee)
08-11-04 10:34
No 524790
I'm not sure about the fb trapped within polymers.
Salt will force up the fb that has escaped the matrix, but I think it makes it harder for trapped fb, because it crystallises in the cellulose binders.
The sparingly soluble characteristic of the fb becomes useless, if that's the mechanism it uses to pass out and I think it is.
(Bizarre pHomme de Terra)
08-11-04 10:56
No 524795
patience is an often disregarded friend.
if what shane says is viable; and it may bee; then time is what we have left.
to short-change time in this migration of moelcules, try doing the a-b in a shallow interface; in an oversized beaker. reduce the distance th molecules must travel if you can't wait long enough for them to travel several centimeters.
another post worth good karma.
ignore at your peril
(Hive Bee)
08-11-04 12:51
No 524813
all great advice, thx.
but one question remains, will mgso4 perform the same function as nacl? i'd guess it would, as would nearly any soluble molecule, but would like confirmation
(Hive Addict)
08-11-04 13:01
No 524815
It might work but the simple fact that I've never heard of anyone yet doing it (subbing epsom salt for sodium chloride) would lead me to wait until you get some sort of reliable confirmation about it.
But hell, I'd bet that for pure entertainments sake there are plenty of closet sadists lurking here who would love to see you guinea pig this one for us all.
(just joking {sort of})
I thought his name was Schickelgruber!
(Head Coach)
08-15-04 00:59
No 525438
To each their own- However if one finds it necessary to add salt to their post reaction liquid to force the 'meth' into the solvent layer....then this 'meth'is probably not the kind of 'meth' you'd want to recover anyhow. As it should require nothing more then basing the liquid to a ph of 13+ to drive the meth out of the aqueous layer and into the solvent layer.
And by saturating the aqueous layer with salt you could just as easily drive out any unwanted compounds as you could meth.
If your trying to recover psuedo from your pill solution then the use of salt can be employed with great results but when it comes to post reaction extractions you'd want to stay away from saturating the aqueous layer with salt since the aqueous layer is one of the few places that unwanted junk can go to and hang out while the meth makes it's way to the solvent layer. Well thats the only thing I felt should be mentioned. Good Luck and BEE safe. Pyrex out of the aqueous layer ;-)
Yeah and if ya don't PAID me well, I won't INFORMANT you of the answers you are seeking ;-)
(Stranger)
08-16-04 05:59
No 525649
swim was always under the impression that this helps to clear the interface between polar/nonpolar (and not to overwhelm the polar layer as one would think). swim has never had the need for it (or so he says :) )
(Bizarre pHomme de Terra)
08-16-04 06:47
No 525671
i was under the impression that saturating the aqueous layer with NaCl was about reducing the volume of hiding places for other molecules, in the most benign way, chemicly.
when swim dreamt of trying it, some salt managed to get into the np, and it seemed silly.
what Kord says makes some sense to me, if only beecause salty water is denser than unsalty water, and might afford a more pronounced dividing line beetween it and a lighter np.
i'd bee curious if salt is helpfull when using a heavier-than-water np?
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
08-16-04 10:53
No 525716
I agree with mr_pyrex. when the base is base it is not going to hang out waiting for a water molecule to release it just because it likes salt better. It has a natural push to the solvent like an air bubble would. They have natural forces driving them to the surface, or to the solvent in this case..
mr_pyrex nice to see you around man..
Tighten Up! (UH)
(Stranger)
08-16-04 13:44
No 525728
adding salt to the aqueous makes it more dense which can help it separate better, dense as in g/cm3 adding salt when using a denser than water np is not a good idea and would likely make more emulsion. oh salt also fucks up surfactants (by relative higher solubility than the surfactant causing the surfactant to become precipitated) which also contributes to imperfect separations. pH too high or too low can make that shit worse too depending on the shit that can be made worse which varies of course.
(Head Coach)
08-18-04 09:35
No 526052
In regards to those who were under the impression that salt usually helps separate the two layers, yes among other little tricks that is one that most of the time will help to separate the two, although it doesn't ensure separation.
So in that capacity alone it can bee useful sometimes or when trying to extract psuedo, but as was mentioned just above, there are also times when it's addition can compound the problem even further. But with final product extraction it shouldn't be necessary since meth is going to happily head on over to the solvent once ph13+ is reached.
Most of the stuff that will cause incomplete separation is junk and stuff that can't make up its mind where it wants to be and you don't want any of that indecisive stuff being friendly with your nice clean cut respectable meth ;-)
For the most part if you processed your final solution properly like washing your post reaction solution with a solvent til the solvent comes out clean and then steam distill the based post reaction solution and then extract the based/distilled solution 3 times with a suitable solvent you should have mirror finish separation anyhow.
If you still need help in getting the two to cleanly separate you can go to your local pool supply store and purchase a small bottle of silicone based spa defoamer and add one or two drops to the mixture giving you the trouble and then gently mix the two and then let settle and see if they will now separate.
And if still not...then screw them! Put 'em in the centifuge and spin the heck out of them til they won't even go near each other :-) Pyrex out spinning around
Yeah and if ya don't PAID me well, I won't INFORMANT you of the answers you are seeking ;-)
(Of Counsel)
08-18-04 22:44
No 526108
I don't recall anyone actually posting comparative yields to test whether adding salt to the polar layer post reaction had any effect on yields. I remember it being discussed, not being done.
Remember that table salt contains anticaking agents. These may contribute to emulsions-- or perhaps to certain types of emulsions. Rock salt or pickling salt will not have the anticaking agents, or the same effect with respect to emulsions.
mostly harmless
(Bizarre pHomme de Terra)
08-19-04 00:33
No 526121
when swim first heard about salting the last pull, it made some sense; he made a mental note to himself to try it; mental note got lost; he forgot to try it.
later on; a new dream; he remembers to try it.
end result?
the same.
that's my anecdotal science report.
time, however, does seem to deliver on that 3rd pull. like 24 hours of time.
which is why i suspect less space could bee a worthwhile manuever. distance and time are closely affiliated.
(Hive Addict)
08-19-04 02:56
No 526165
Here was swim's initial exposure to this idea of adding rock salt to a post rxn procedure.
at ../rhodium/worlock/rxn1.html
(3/4's down the page - the third Procedure Continued column, third bullet point heading)
Worlock wrote...
Adding rock salt (as much as will dissolve) causes the water to drop all remaining chili, releasing it to the oil and increases your yield.
Men need a layer of dust around the house. It tells them where to put things back.
(Stranger)
08-22-04 12:08
No 526755
is the stuff i've seen used as an anti caking agent. it would not cause any problem and is not present in great amounts anyway
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
08-24-04 07:33
No 527042
Not to sound disrespectful but Worlock also wrote about two week long cold reactions in trunks of cars...
Tighten Up! (UH)
(Hive Bee)
08-24-04 08:40
No 527050
How advanced were pill formulations?
The only problem I've got with salt is the lowering of the solubility of the fb, in the context that the fb is trapped within gaks, which I know it is based on the numbers.
But for post-rxn, almost all those binders are absent, so it doesn't matter if I do or don't. It'll be on a 4th or 3rd pull at earliest anyway.
(Hive Addict)
08-24-04 08:54
No 527053
And in further response, I wasn't trying to imply that "if Worlock said it that it must bee true". I was just providing the initial source of where I first saw it mentioned so that others might see it in that particular "original form" and make their own judgement on it.
But I guess I will say that I do think that even despite the age of his material that Worlock is someone who does generally provide some good solid basics when it comes to learning about this realm of endeavor.
The whole Tweaker God thing is a bit of an exaggeration but not too much of one really.
Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air