08-09-04 20:24
No 524449
May I ask what type of setup is to be used. Is a drying tower still necessary. What about a precooler would a regular spiral condenser suffice as a precooler.
(Wonderful Personality)
08-09-04 20:43
No 524451
As told this produces ammonia without water (dry/dried urea is understood - dry it just below the docomposition temperature... ).
As told the ammonia will be pretty hot though free from water. A iron or SS tube-spiral through icewater will suffice as precooler - a standard spriral glasscooler fed with icewater will suffice if the amount of ammonia is not to large. No copper, no brass but plain old iron/mild steel is perfectly ok here.
Your question is not to answer universally as cooling depends on the amounts processed, heat transfer capability, temperature difference...and, and, and...
hope this helps nevertheless.
so near, so far......
(Hive Bee)
08-16-04 05:19
No 525632
put high ammonia containing fert with sodium hydroxide then heat too easy and fucking cheap
e3500 console login: root
bash-2.05#
(Wonderful Personality)
08-16-04 07:56
No 525691
Hmmmmm....
put high ammonia containing fert with sodium hydroxide then heat too easy and fucking cheap
I dont know what this fertilizer exactly contains. Heating ammonium nitrate left a rather big hole in Oklahoma City lately AFAIK.
If the fertilizer is urea then you can skip the NaOH as this is exactly what was told in my first post.
Please be more specific or let it go.
regards
ORG
so near, so far......
(Hive Bee)
08-17-04 02:00
No 525811
now thats bucket chem if i ever did see it...
You need to be sure of whats in it totally to see what you will get out and possible side rxns which may occur, as org said, you may just end up as wallpaper on the crumbled remains of your house via your method.
Any ammonium salt can be used with a base to produce ammonia gas.
Just be certain of the salts % contents if your using fert to see what may/will happen.
-AC
Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...
(Hive Bee)
08-17-04 22:38
No 525950
How can ammonium nitrate lead to an explosion when basified with NaOH? The bomb that destroyed a whole building in oklahoma consisted of NH4NO3, thats true; but the other things needed to get it to detonate are a priming charge and fuel oil (e.g. diesel) - the commercial name for this explosive is ANFO (Ammonium Nitrate/Fuel Oil), it is commercially used in mining for its good usability (pourable mixture) anbd low price, and it definately needs some other primary explosive (i.e. mercury fulminate) to get it to detonate...
I don't think you can accomplish the same thing with lye and fertilizer, so there's no need to worry when experimenting with it IMO.
Greetz A
Pleased to meet you hope you get my name.
But whats puzzlin you is the nature of my game!
(Wonderful Personality)
08-18-04 02:50
No 525975
Huhu! Jemand zuhause?
Ammonia anhydrous. If you add LYE to ammonium nitrate you dont get anhydrous ammonia without extensive drying. If you add NaOH you will have problems in getting an mixture homogenous enough to prevent thermal decomposition - if this is possible at all.
Anhydrous, anhydrous, anhydrous - fuck did anybody read the subject of the thread?
Eh - yes, lets try again: Dis anybody UNDERSTAND the subject? And NaOH and lye are not interchangeable, arnt they?
Oh this hurts.
so near, so far......
(Hive Bee)
08-18-04 03:41
No 525994
My fault - I didn't think about it, just thought some water would be necessary to get them to react...
(of course drying is necessary when H2O is added)
If you add NaOH you will have problems in getting an mixture homogenous enough to prevent thermal decomposition - if this is possible at all
I don't think it is possible. Anyway, if Quantum meant mixing solid NaOH with solid fertilizer - I don't think it will react at any appreciable rate at all, even more unlikely that an explosion will occur. To get NH3(g) from solid fertilizer with the aid of NaOH, water has to be present...
And if the fertilizer consists of urea, simple heating should suffice of course, like you said...
Greetz A
Pleased to meet you hope you get my name.
But whats puzzlin you is the nature of my game!
(Hive Addict)
08-18-04 07:05
No 526036
Just to ask a question,
What is cyanuric acid useful for?
But the method is great, urea is dirt cheap and rather safe when compared to other methods of production, and if the urea is sufficiently dried then yes it would be an excellent way to get anhy ammonia for a dirt cheap basement door price!!!
-AC
Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...
(Hive Bee)
08-18-04 10:59
No 526060
Preparation of trichloroisocyanuric acid from cyanuric acid:
Molecule: TCICUA ("OC1=NC(O)=NC(O)=N1.[K]OC2=NC(O[K])=NC(
Step 1: KOH
Step 2: Cl2, UV, 0°C
And we all know what is trichloroisocyanuric acid used for.
(Hive Addict)
08-18-04 18:50
No 526089
urea to cyanuric acid
Patent US2822363
Patent US3093641
Patent US2872447
Patent US2527316
Patent US2790801
Patent US2943088
Patent US3297697
Patent US2952679
Patent US2975177
Patent DE865306
Patent DE752639
cyanuric acid to trichlorocyanuric acid
Patent US2969360
Patent DE1089764
Patent DE2226350
--psyloxy--
(Hive Bee)
08-19-04 01:53
No 526140
Trichloroisocyanuric acid is used in 99-100% conc. as a swimming pool chemical I bee-lieve, I have seen it listed for sale at many pool shops online.
Kids, say NO to the DEA!
(Hive Bee)
08-19-04 16:09
No 526298
Yup, and it's very cheap - sold by the kilo...
Why bother with making it yourself? Doesn't seem worth the work!? (just curious about the intention behind it)
Greetz A
Pleased to meet you hope you get my name.
But whats puzzlin you is the nature of my game!
(Hive Addict)
08-19-04 17:17
No 526303
Uhm, well - you're completely right. Since the topic came up I wanted to throw in something useful. On second thought it seems futile to try and synth TCCA. OTOH maybe the urea to cyanuric acid patents are interesting in respect to the topic of this thread (I don't know).
--psyloxy--
(Hive Bee)
08-20-04 18:34
No 526487
In case you thought so: I didn't want to flame you - it was really pure interest...
Of course the patents about converting urea to cyanuric are quite interesting, seen in connection with this thread!
I just imagined on the one hand {all those solvents used, much work and cleaning up afterwards} vs. {walk-in and buy some kilos for some few bucks without any questions} OTOH
.Greetz A
Pleased to meet you hope you get my name.
But whats puzzlin you is the nature of my game!
(Hive Addict)
08-22-04 03:41
No 526668
Why bother with making it yourself?
(in ref to tcca)Its not the main focus of what we want....
in org original post:
Urea + heat = cyanuric acid + ammonia
And the thread title:
NH3 - anhydrous
So the cyanuric acid is just another product of the heating to get out anhy ammonia.... were not interested in it at all... (in this thread anyway)
Infact the talk about cyanuric was started by foolish me when i asked what it was used for..... whoops! off topic!
So is there any further comment on org's method for anhy ammonia?
-AC
Its just my opinion, but no-one listens to me anyway, and rightly so...