09-19-02 08:43
No 358002
Having researched this info for one of my current projects, I thought I'd share (in particular I needed an OTC source of nickel).
FYI, nickel carbonate (pottery supply) currently costs around CDN$35/1Kg, containing 494g elemental nickel. Probably for most of us it's the chloride we're interested in, easily prepared by mixing the carbonate with HCl (or elemental with HCl). The cheapest source of nickel-containing currency are nickels from 1955-1981 (1970-1980 nickels are still in wide circulation), so 494g of $0.05 coins would cost you $5.45, interesting, yes? Of course, it's illegal to deface currency in Canada...
$0.01 (penny)
2000-???? 2.35g 94% steel, 1.5% nickel, 4.5% copper plating
1997-1999 2.25g 98.4% zinc, 1.6% copper plating
1982-1996 2.50g 98% copper, 1.75% tin, 0.25% zinc
1980-1981 2.80g 98% copper, 1.75% tin, 0.25% zinc
1978-1979 3.24g 98% copper, 1.75% tin, 0.25% zinc
1942-1977 3.24g 98% copper, 0.5% tin, 1.5% zinc
1920-1941 3.24g 95.5% copper, 3% tin, 1.5% zinc
1908-1920 5.67g 95.5% copper, 3% tin, 1.5% zinc
$0.05 (nickel)
2000-???? 3.95g 94.5% steel, 3.5% copper, 2% nickel plating
1982-1999 4.60g 75% copper, 25% nickel
1955-1981 4.54g 99.9% nickel
1951-1954 4.54g chrome plated steel
1946-1951 4.54g 99.9% nickel
1944-1945 4.54g chrome plated steel
1942-1943 4.54g 88% copper, 12% zinc
1922-1942 4.54g 99% nickel
1920-1921 1.17g 80% silver, 20% copper
1908-1919 1.17g 92.5% silver, 7.5% copper
$0.10 (dime)
2000-???? 1.75g 92% steel, 5.5% copper, 2.5% nickel plating
1968-1999 2.07g 99.9% nickel
1920-1967 2.33g 80% silver, 20% copper
1910-1919 2.33g 92.5% silver, 7.5% copper
1908-1910 2.32g 92.5% silver, 7.5% copper
$0.25 (quarter)
2000-???? 4.40g 94% steel, 3.8% copper, 2.2% nickel plating
1968-1999 5.05g 99.9% nickel
1967-1968 5.05g 50% silver, 50% copper
1920-1967 5.83g 80% silver, 20% copper
1910-1919 5.83g 92.5% silver, 7.5% copper
1908-1910 5.81g 92.5% silver, 7.5% copper
$1.00 (loonie, dollar bill discontinued 1987)
1987-???? 7.00g 91.5% nickel, 8.5% bronze plating
1968-1986 15.6g 99% nickel
1935-1967 23.3g 80% silver, 20% copper
$2.00 (toonie, two-dollar bill discontinued 1996)
1996-???? 7.30g Outer ring: 99% nickel
Center circle: 92% copper, 6% aluminum, 2% nickel
That's all folks... hopefully useful to someone besides me.
Add your thread to the rich tapestry of conspiracy...
... and wave hello at the satellites!
(Hive Bee)
09-19-02 15:14
No 358088
AFAIK nickel is as suspicious as bread. Or did I miss something?
For little amounts look at "element stores", you can get the powder there with >99,99 purity. Also some welding electrodes are pur Ni insides, not to talk about (hobby)-plating supplies.
This "Ni from coins" BS is a complete waste of time and energy - period. Probably you will also waste other precious precursors and solvents if you try to use what you got this way.
On general: Ni as catalyst needs elevatet temperatures and pressure. Thus says about +80bar better +150bar. For the investment in a autoclave you can buy a lots of PdCl2 or hexachloroplatinous acid at your photochemical supply house.
It is in the nature of metal catalysts, that they are sensible on impurities of any kind during preparation. Have fun fucking up your Pd/C by using muriatic acid from the hardware store! Ruin your reaction by traces of sulphur you never will know where from poisoning Pt during precipation!
LISTEN! The method to prepare metal catalysts is quite simple. There are small amounts of chemicals needed. These have to be as pure as possible. Go for Pt/black so possible, as itīs preparation seems to be more fault/poison proof than metal on carbon. As long as you stay on the level of information where you think nickel from coins might be a good idea please donīt do anything what includes hydrogenation. Gather information, when the day has come you laugh on this stupid idea you had sometimes ago (coins! ha!) - this is the day you may build your first hydrogen generator/pressure vessel setup.
This may also give some inspiration to all who have been asking themselves:
huu? sounds so simple this catalytic hydrodingsbums? and this KrZ guy writes it also? why not everybody makes it!
A hint: The crazy one was a reference to writeup transformer. No reality needed.
step one: inform
step two: think
step three would be "post", but has been eliminated if one and two done right
ORGY
(Hive Bee)
09-19-02 22:07
No 358193
Organikum, I understand you're trying to help, but as many people have said, "Question Everything".
As far as nickel from coins is concerned, that's the easiest and cheapest source I've found around here, so I'm going to give it a go (and 99.9% isn't pure enough?). Experience is the best teacher (but perhaps not the most forgiving).
Elevated pressure doesn't appear to be necessary for what I intend to use it for, at least according to the amphetamine from P2NP on Rhodium's site (if it's wrong, I'd hope he'd edit it). Amphetamine is not my goal, but it's the same basic reaction as far as I understand - and if I'm wrong, I'll find out one way or another.
Buying nickel salts is not exactly difficult or a hardship for me, but I'd thought I'd try alternate methods. Perhaps I'll discover something, perhaps not.
Add your thread to the rich tapestry of conspiracy...
... and wave hello at the satellites!
(Hive Bee)
09-20-02 02:20
No 358296
you will need it.
There will be yields if there is enough time for the reaction. Two days up to several weeks. But you will have to use an very big amount of catalyst.
If nickel is used in a microwave/CTH reaction for the reductive Alkylation there might be a chance. Yields? Dunno.
Elevated pressure doesn't appear to be necessary for what I intend to use it for, at least according to the amphetamine from P2NP on Rhodium's site (if it's wrong, I'd hope he'd edit it). Amphetamine is not my goal, but it's the same basic reaction as far as I understand - and if I'm wrong, I'll find out one way or another.
Perhaps you should ask Rhodium himself how far he is willing to take over responsibility for the correctness of the content of his webpage.
Yes and as itīs obvious that ya donīt want to know, ya just want to believe I will leave you on this.
have fun stay safe
ORGY
(A Different Title)
09-20-02 03:42
No 358332
Organikum, I appreciate your concern. Check your PMs, I think there's more to this than you might have read in my posts.
Anyway, the data in the first post is factual, people may ignore my theory and use the facts for whatever they wish - how people decide to use those metals is up to them, whether or not they use a 1981 Canadian nickel as a catalyst is at their own risk, and the Hive has provided both sides of the argument.
I'd like to stand back now and take a neutral position on the topic, until SWISM's results come in.
Add your thread to the rich tapestry of conspiracy...
... and wave hello at the satellites!
(Hive Bee)
09-20-02 05:23
No 358383
Is it this you are talking about?
../rhodium /amph.ur
If thus is so, a short comment:
Ni catalysts are known to need elevated temperature, elevated pressure (>80bar) and basic conditions for being used in reductive amination/alkylations.
This information can be found in basic and sophisticated literature, on the web, from catalyst manufacturers and patents.
In the "writeup" is no pressure applied, no heat and the catalyst is washed to neutral and to the reaction is acid added.
I would be the first to praise the lord loud if it comes out to be as easy.
But I am sure that it is only another BS "writeup" which floates around here at the HIVE. There are and always have been some psychopathics who feeded their ego by posting "fiction science".
rant rant rant
ORGY
(Chief Bee)
09-20-02 06:50
No 358408
The Urushibara Nickel reduction is not an ordinary hydrogenation, if that is what you were hoping to see. It is a catalytic transfer hydrogenation (CTH), where finely divided nickel is first made by dissolving aluminum metal in a solution of nickel(II)chloride:
NiCl2(aq) + Al(s) -> Ni(s) + AlCl3(aq)
Then this metal powder is used as a catalyst, where an acidified alcoholic solution of the nitroalkene is treated with more aluminum metal. As the aluminum dissolves, hydrogen is produced, which is adsorbed onto the Urushibara Nickel surface, and is then transferred to the substrate which is reduced.
2 Al + 6 H+ -> 2 Al3+ + 3 H2
Ni + H2 -> "NiH2"
"NiH2" + Nitrostyrene -> Ni + Phenethylamine
References for this:
../rhodium /urushib
../rhodium /urushib
(Newbee)
09-20-02 07:40
No 358420
Ritter with a twist? This may be of interest.
Post 219408 (encopo: "Re: meth via 5c coins", Chemicals & Equipment)
***
Lastly I must titrate so your heart can palpitate
(Newbee)
09-20-02 07:49
No 358423
This is the hive bible on Urushibara catalysts.
On Rhodiums page there is also a great setup for an overhead stirrer that may be significant.
Post 270027 (Rhodium: "Zn/NiCl2 reduction of oxime/nitro/nitriles/ketone", Chemistry Discourse)
Good luck Spectral! Don't forget to report back on success or failure.
***
Lastly I must titrate so your heart can palpitate.
(Hive Bee)
09-21-02 04:41
No 358678
So I apologize. I havenīt seen the CTH mechanism which is involved and was only usual Ni catalysts regarding.
Spectralmagic I wish you best luck and success from heart. Remembering posts from JIM(wig) on microwave chemistry and CTH, you will perhaps have a look for this. It is postulated to fasten reaction and improve yields.
Can somebody explain why this Ni/CTH reaction does only work on some (nitro)-compounds? Why this selectivity and is thus to predict somehow?
there are still some doubts left in my heart. To sweet and simple this sounds to me. But would be glad to hear that is reality.
ORGY