03-17-04 23:43
No 495802
I've noticed that benzadehyde is a list 1 chem, but it seems to be widely available. Is it fairly easy to get from chem supply houses in small quanities...say 20L and under? What are some bees experiences with buying the stuff?
Sorry if this is in the wrong forum
Thx
2 Heads r Better than 1
(The Archetypical "Good Guy")
03-18-04 08:49
No 495881
Instead of buying pure benzaldehyde, you could settle for some natural oil, rich in the stuff. I think oil of almonds is around 80% benzaldehyde. Piece of cake to distill and purify; and whom doesn't like the smell of almonds
Nuke the whales!
(Stranger)
03-18-04 18:03
No 495946
Some imaginary person I never knew once purchased bitter almond oil and it turned out to be like 95% benzaldehyde.
(Hive Bee)
03-19-04 19:47
No 496169
Always make sure that you get the bitter almond oil which is free of HCN before you start to distill it, if unsure take precautions.
Hippler
(Stranger)
03-20-04 00:10
No 496204
Bitter almond isn't very commonly used.
Food Grade isn't either anymore, as far as I know.
Apricot kernal oil is more common, but it contains a lot of other things because it's cold pressed oil. AFAIK.
If it is available as an oil that contains 50% even, then that's still a better option that synthesising, because that's the final yield you are likely to get from most methods when all is said and done, plus loss of reagents, plus the extra stress if your that way inclined like me...
It'd be interesting to me to find out what certain procedures USING benzaldehyde, are likely to be tolerant to asfar as impurities from it's synthesis.
To do this I will head over to IPAC to see if some likely impurities I can think of are used purposfully in syntheses using the same yeast..uh I mean beast, yes that's what I meant. ;-)
(Hive Bee)
03-20-04 08:14
No 496269
Many flavor/fragrance companies carry benzaldehyde, either as benzaldehyde or as artificial oil of bitter almonds.There doesn't seem to be any problem ordering a small quantity of benzaldehyde from such companies. The natural oil of bitter almonds is far too expensive for my tastes.
According to Title 21 Code of Federal Regulations, section 1310.04, the reporting threshold for transactions of benzaldehyde is 4 kg per month (http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/
19th century digital boy
(Wonderful Personality)
03-20-04 16:29
No 496325
The law is the law......
.....but I am convinced that benzaldehyde is a "silently watched" substance and I wouldnt buy it from a supplier in amounts over one liter if at all.
Benzaldehyde has all properties for becoming equal treated as safrole is by now - if behind the curtain this doesnt happen already.
But thats just me and my opinion on this topic.
ORG
(Hive Bee)
03-24-04 06:15
No 496986
Buying any listed chemical is no more difficult than others. The supplier is unlikely to question you unless you are a new customer or do something stupid like buy all the ingredients for a synthesis from one company. As long as you are under the threshhold and have a reason to have it that you actually participate in I wouldn't worry about it just in case you get the knock on the door. Of course buying as an individual rather than as a company name carries its own risks. At least that has been my experience. One of my suppliers recently gave me 5 dusty old liters of Mallinkrodt PhCHO that had been in the back for years. The labels were all faded and I quess nobody would buy it. Distilled it and worked just fine.
(Hive Bee)
03-26-04 01:55
No 497386
Apricot Kernal oil will release HCN if it is ingested and reacts with a certain enzyme present in the digestive system.
I agree with Organikum in regards to benzaldehyde being silently watched.
This is very much true in Australia.
Benzaldehyde is classed as a category 2 illicit drug precursor in australia, so one would have to fill out an EUD, unless one aquires it through an established account!
Unfortunately for swim, his favourite chem supplier controls the bitter almond puriss oil as well, so until he finds an alternative source, he will have to use his imagination.
IMO, i think the authorities know all about benzaldehyde and its potential, but are not letting on to create a false illusion for informed operators with a will to strive
The law is the law orgy, so as law abiding, tax paying citizens we must adhere to the law, as *best* we can! ;D
PS. Whoever thinks 20l of benzaldehyde is a 'small' amount and therefore considers ordering 20l to be a 'small' risk is unfortunately horribly mistaken.
Disgression is our common key!
I'm a diamond that is tired, of all the faces i've aquired.
(Stranger)
03-26-04 15:03
No 497509
There is a fairly straight forward otc (although somewhat time consuming) synth of benzaldehyde. Its 2 steps. toluene to Benzyl cloride to benzaldehyde.
sorry if i am being redundant and this is not info you are looking for
(Wonderful Personality)
03-26-04 19:12
No 497540
This link might help those interested in producing benzaldehyde:
Post 208702 (Antoncho: "The easiest synth of benzaldehyde from toluene", Chemistry Discourse)
Read the whole thread, there are several methods for making benzaldehyde covered, there should be a way for everybody with serious ambitions.
The production of benzaldehyde by the chlorination of toluene to either benzylchloride or benzalchloride (and some benzotrichloride and ringchlorinated compounds) is not unproblematic as it requires the use of chlorine (not nice) and it seems not to be as easy as it sounds - some bees had no problems, some bees say this way is shit. Same for the chlorination after the Loomis patent using bleaching powder.
Anyways: If one decides to go for toluene chlorination he might consider to use the following method to convert benzyl AND benzalchloride to benzaldehyde in one easy step: Boiling the reaction products of the toluene chlorination with an aqueous solution of hexamine (solid camping fuel tablets) converts both - benzyl and benzalchloride into benzaldehyde (Sommelet reaction).