09-13-04 15:38
No 531186
DrugPhreak visited a local chemical supplier and as they walked through the door they sensed the suspicious vibes coming from the two guys at the counter. DrugPhreak made direct eye connect with them for a couple of seconds because most people consider "not making eye contact" to be synonymous with "shady". DrugPhreak then proceeded to walk around the store and started checking out all the glassware and other equipment. About 10 minutes after DrugPhreak was checking out all the things one of the guys from the counter came up to them and asked if they can help with anything. DrugPhreak then asked them the price of certain chemicals. The guy asked DrugPhreak if he was with a company and they replied that they where not. DrugPhreak said they where an amateur scientist/inventor... DrugPhreak nearly jumped the gun and almost blurted out the normal lame "science project/student" excuse. The guy seemed to believe DrugPhreak and said that he could sell just about anything to individuals, but all purchases require ID. After talking with the guy for a little while DrugPhreak got the feeling that this guy didn't have any moral issues about selling chemicals to people and only cared about making as much money as possible and that they would sell anything they have as long as they are covering their ass. DrugPhreak knows a real good source for fake ID that looks so close to the real thing that most people wouldn't know it was counterfeit. The thing that is bothering DrugPhreak is that they don't know if LE could scan the photo from the copy of this fake ID and then track them down. Any bees know if they could do that?
Crank is part of this complete breakfast.
(Hive Bee)
09-13-04 17:05
No 531195
As a person knowledgable in computer technology, databases in particular, I can say with certainty that IF someone used the same photo as their driver's license, Law Enforcement would be able to match it to the photo on the drivers license on file IF LE had a reason to do such a thing (for example: they figured out the other license was fake - name not matching number, or whatever). If the photo is significantly different from any that they have "on file" for any reason, but still looks like a standard drivers license photo, they are extremely unlikely to be able to programatically (with a computer) match it to a photo they do have on file.
So suppose the picture includes a new haircut/haircolor, a person of a different age from any photos on public records, glasses (of course one would need to wear those neutral lens glasses and make sure the license says "corrective vision") if the person doesn't wear them, or no glasses if the person does wear them, or some stubble on the face (as if having not shaved for 2 days) if the person is not bearded, I would think that this is adequate to fool facial recognition software doing a mass search of public record databases.
However, don't discount the possibility that Law Enforcement may have a particular reason to cross-check the license on file with the chem company against one's records. In this situation (for example, they've found a meth lab and some precursor chemicals and are trying to determine their origin), the person in question would be, as they say, FUCKED.
See: (The last one is VERY interesting - read them all if your freedom depends on it)
http://archive.aclu.org/issues/privacy/f
http://www.imagistechnologies.com/Produc
http://www.biometritech.com/features/rou
http://people.howstuffworks.com/facial-r
http://www.nacsonline.com/NACS/News/Dail
http://www.dodcounterdrug.com
http://www.frvt.org DoD Releases Report on Facial Recognition at Chokepoints
(Hive Bee)
09-13-04 18:03
No 531207
Analyses geometric spacing of features like mouth and eyes. To confuse, get face at different angle and use a different expression. Glasses may help to confuse.
Are you, or have you ever been a Liberal? YES / NO
(Hive Bee)
09-13-04 22:13
No 531230
Excellent info merbst... thanks! It always fascinated me how 7+ billion people can have the same components that make up a face... yet look different from everyone else. Talking about ID and all that... if anyone has ID with an encrypted barcode they can find out what it says here http://www.turbulence.org/Works/swipe/ba
Crank is part of this complete breakfast.
(Hive Bee)
09-14-04 00:11
No 531246
>>DrugPhreak visited a local chemical supplier and as they walked through the door they sensed the suspicious vibes coming from the two guys at the counter
That's because they dont like individuals bothering them with little retail sales when they've got larger legitimate orders to handle
>>DrugPhreak made direct eye connect with them for a couple of seconds because most people consider "not making eye contact" to be synonymous with "shady".
Making obvious eye contact is also 'shady'.
>>DrugPhreak then proceeded to walk around the store and started checking out all the glassware and other equipment
As the majority of their tweaker customers do. Normal people don't browse and impulse buy for scientific equipment; they already know what they want.
>>About 10 minutes after DrugPhreak was checking out all the things one of the guys from the counter came up to them and asked if they can help with anything
Because they thought you were either going to steal something or hold them up
>>DrugPhreak then asked them the price of certain chemicals
Legitimate customers don't particularly care about price. They are more concerned about product range and efficiency of service
>>The guy asked DrugPhreak if he was with a company and they replied that they where not. DrugPhreak said they where an amateur scientist/inventor... DrugPhreak nearly jumped the gun and almost blurted out the normal lame "science project/student" excuse.
How many amateur scientists do you know that operate from home? Please come up with a better excuse than the prior 1000 tweakers have blurted out.
>>After talking with the guy for a little while DrugPhreak got the feeling that this guy didn't have any moral issues about selling chemicals to people and only cared about making as much money as possible
All businesses want to make money. Your prior behavior threatened this right (they dont want trouble from LE). The skill is progressing to this point (where they like u and want your business) as soon as possible.
>>The guy seemed to believe DrugPhreak and said that he could sell just about anything to individuals, but all purchases require ID
This is good and bad. He feels a sense of security (because he has your ID); and you can provide a false one to cover your ass. However, he actually requested ID so he doesn't trust you.
If you were a 'business' you could provide business card/stationary and he would be satisfied (and he wouldn't have your photo ID). The second skill is legitimising a business with a business/post/delivery address, phone/fax number, email, website and actual business activity (and exuding this as a well groomed business person). All these can be fabricated and made to be non-traceable (UTFSE).
The first visit to a chem supply is the most important. Get it right, and you will have years of easy trouble-free chem and equipment purchases. No suspicion or ID necessary.
P.S. This is not a dig at you personally Drug_Phreak; u did well enough. This is just some general advice to newbees for that important first visit to a chem supply.
(Hive Addict)
09-14-04 00:35
No 531250
1. Watch Chem companies, view employee movements on paydays or Friday at end of shift.(Lots of employees, go to bars on payday or friday nights.)
2. Go to bar and, over time, befriend employee.(pick your target)
3. Catch up with new friend regularly and cultivate relationship.(make sure you wait a few weeks before mentioning any chem stuff)
4. Win your new friends trust. Pre arranged girls work well, or "save" your new friends arse from a percieved attacker. (pre-arranged with one of your mates)
5. Your new buddy is now indebted to you and will bend the rules for his new buddy. Tell him there are some goodies or $$$$$ in it for him as well.
6. IMPORTANT! - Don't get your new buddy to acquire any old shit that you can acquire elsewhere (alcohols, solvents, standard glassware, etc.), only use this source for things that can only be obtained through a chem supplier.
This should take no longer than 6-8 weeks to put together and is the safest way to do things, IMO.
My "New Buddy" and me are still good buddies.
Pest for hire, P.M. for details
(Stranger)
09-14-04 19:53
No 531365
Excuse me for my ignorance, but there are actually retail stores that have glassware sitting out on shelves? I was under the impression that this would be a strictly mail-order type of business. Perhaps the people speaking of such things were outside of the usa ?
Abolt: That's the work of a true genius. Having an insider would remove so much headache...
(Hive Bee)
09-14-04 22:05
No 531391
>>Excuse me for my ignorance, but there are actually retail stores that have glassware sitting out on shelves?
Some suppliers have little showroom where they have their product range on display. Some may also let u go 'out back' where they have all the stuff stored.
But definately not like a supermarket where you can just browse and select products off the shelf...
>>I was under the impression that this would be a strictly mail-order type of business.
Depends on the retailer. Some have their little showrooms and printed catalogues. Others are more warehouse-like and use mail/email ordering.
Larger supply houses use web-based ordering (after registered as an account customer). And if you are a really special customer, sales reps will come out to your premesis/lab and take orders off you personally.
(Of Counsel)
09-15-04 13:23
No 531498
Abolt, I like the way you think. Are you sure you never practiced law for a living?
mostly harmless
(Stranger)
09-24-04 22:52
No 533081
I've a few tidbits to throw out into the abyss..
If you wish to GIVE an appearance of legitimacy rather than some wannabe chem. student, you might consider spending a $100 or so registering a company name (Incorporating, LLC, sole proprietor, etc.) or other business entity.. Simple paperwork, really amounting to nothing more than paying some fees to your state government. Such formation of a business entity allows one to open a business/company checking account (including checks and debit card with your name in addition to the business/company name).
If you do it right, you are fully within the law to create/have a business entity.
How do you think a clerk OR law enforcement agent will view cash paying 'amateur scientist/inventor' in comparison to 'guy from blanky technologies llc' whom pays for his wares with a company check?
The appearance(s) created from having a business name and checks helps (in my experience) you to be overlooked and not given a second thought by both chem suppliers and LE perusing supplier sales records.
----------------------------------------
It is very hard, rather impossible (in my opinion) to keep from having your name OR face connected with a purchase (chems, precursors, otc, etc.)
In order to get items in your hands, there will be a link to you (or the person you have doing your shopping for you). Either your name or face, think about it real carefully and you'll understand my point.. :) Even those convienent OTC purchases result in store security cameras recording endless video of the purchaser which is quite devastating (I think moreso than mail ordering supplies) with the common close relationship between retail stores, their security personnel and law enforcement.
**If you want something done right, DO IT YOURSELF, is a good motto to live by**
Liberty vs. 3 squares and cot, completely free...
Mmmmm, free?
Free room, board, and food..
Sign me up baby! Liberty done got left in the dust..
-MiNd
(Hive Bee)
09-25-04 08:22
No 533131
How do you think a clerk OR law enforcement agent will view cash paying 'amateur scientist/inventor' in comparison to 'guy from blanky technologies llc' whom pays for his wares with a company check?
Indeed, companies are subjected to less suspicion. Ensure your company business matches your order. There is no stopping you from creating multiple 'companies'; each with different requirements from different suppliers. In Oz, setting up a ABN and ACN is difficult without pinpointing you to a TFN. So, use someone elses'
Then pay with non-traceable payment methods (money order, direct deposit) and deliver to a safe place (Freight depot, PO box).
(Stranger)
09-26-04 08:39
No 533250
Hmm. I have no experience obtaining any 'suspicious' supplies as of yet, so anything I say is for learning. I have been researching this topic alot lately. Are you sure it would be best to pay with a legitimate company check from a bank account that has your name and identity all over it? Sure, it looks good to the supplier as far as selling you the goods, but when the DEA comes knockin', your identity is right there for them. I was looking at ways to make a false business. I'm talking business ID, maybe with some holograph on it, business cards,the whole deal. How would they/Do they really check if the business is legitimate or not? I know if you set up a company with them, then went in and paid cash for all your things it would look kinda weird. I'm just not feeling so safe about leaving any trace of my true identity. You could always use some sort of disguise when going in so whatever cameras they have can't be used to ID you. I guess we're all planning it doesnt get to that point though. I still think abolt's method of befriending a supply house employee would be the best bet. Almost foolproof. Almost
(Newbee)
09-26-04 10:00
No 533261
IMO you need a pretty ugly character to "befriend" someone just because he works somewhere/because you want him to do you a favor.
Better try to convince the employee at the counter/phone that you are a serious, honest researcher NOT willing to bend the laws, and prepare to have reasonable explanations at hand when asked about this and that. They have many customers that don't try to befriend them after work and still are considered good customers...
(simply walk in, have a fake business ID at hand - and you aren't distinguishable from the other company guys buing here regularly...
indole_amine
(Stranger)
09-26-04 17:39
No 533250
Hmm. I have no experience obtaining any 'suspicious' supplies as of yet, so anything I say is for learning. I have been researching this topic alot lately. Are you sure it would be best to pay with a legitimate company check from a bank account that has your name and identity all over it? Sure, it looks good to the supplier as far as selling you the goods, but when the DEA comes knockin', your identity is right there for them. I was looking at ways to make a false business. I'm talking business ID, maybe with some holograph on it, business cards,the whole deal. How would they/Do they really check if the business is legitimate or not? I know if you set up a company with them, then went in and paid cash for all your things it would look kinda weird. I'm just not feeling so safe about leaving any trace of my true identity. You could always use some sort of disguise when going in so whatever cameras they have can't be used to ID you. I guess we're all planning it doesnt get to that point though. I still think abolt's method of befriending a supply house employee would be the best bet. Almost foolproof. Almost
(Newbee)
09-26-04 19:00
No 533261
IMO you need a pretty ugly character to "befriend" someone just because he works somewhere/because you want him to do you a favor.
Better try to convince the employee at the counter/phone that you are a serious, honest researcher NOT willing to bend the laws, and prepare to have reasonable explanations at hand when asked about this and that. They have many customers that don't try to befriend them after work and still are considered good customers...
(simply walk in, have a fake business ID at hand - and you aren't distinguishable from the other company guys buing here regularly...
indole_amine
(Hive Bee)
09-27-04 02:56
No 533321
Any bees ever see that spray that prevents a camera from getting a good photograph? I wonder if that would work on a xerox machine... I assume it doesn't. I need to get some again so I can do some tests with it. Do any beez know what kind of chemicals would prevent a xerox machine from producing a good copy? The spray for cameras is sprayed over the object being photographed and I am in search of something that would be just as effective, but for copy machines. After I find something that works I plan to spray this on ID.
Crank is part of this complete breakfast.
(Stranger)
09-28-04 00:13
No 533448
Shoot yee self in the foot over and over rather than attempt the huge facade of befriending a chem supplier, oh my god, if a new bee even thought about doing that it'd be the end of em. That whole imagined concept is nothing short of an huge mess, ordeal, etc.
"This should take no longer than 6-8 weeks to put together and is the safest way to do things, IMO."
I gotta question your sanity abolt?!?! And the to say it's "safest" is a lie at best and at worst is inentionally trying to sabotage a new organic chemist??
Police get your name from your 'friend' OR from legitimate sales records and come ah knockin on your door. Frankly, I'D rather they get my name from my sales records of my legit purchases! I don't have to worry about nothing, it's nice and THE SAFEST. I don't worry what other people are going to say to police, I don't worry what they will find on me or in my house, etc.
Just where do get the belief another HUMAN being with no link or ties like family members/spouses is going to protect you??
As for appearances, oh wow, WHEN not if, shit hits the fan on that mess (IF you actually did that) that' gettin chems secretly by knowing/friending chem supplier would probably alone guarantee a guilty jury verdict. It screams the appearance your doing illegal stuff with such chems.
But the primary problem is involving other people, like your new friend. I know of few to NO people who will lie/cover-up/protect another person in general. If lucky maybe a spouse or family member!
But if you want to waste your time, have a circus, involve other people whom WILL spean the beans to LE when they come askin and a host of other problems, try it and be sure to write about it afterwards (you'll have lotsa time in prison), it would be entertaining..
Your friend could get in legal trouble and spill da beans on your to get help himself, your friend could say something to someone else, etc.
Human nature includes does include talking, and bragging among others. Having other ppl help/assist you is real bad news. They tell others (their friends) of their actions, what they have done, are doing, they brag.. SOMEONE elses slip of the tongue which screws oneself isn't my idea of safest or smart.
-MiNd
(Head Coach)
09-28-04 11:02
No 533534
Not that it is all that important, but -->biotechdude, there was an assumption made on your part in I believe your first reply in this thread that might be somewhat misleading to a fellow bee if he took your post word...for...word.
And the statement I am referring to is--> This is good and bad. He feels a sense of security (because he has your ID); and you can provide a false one to cover your ass. HOWEVER, HE ACTUALLY REQUESTED YOUR ID SO HE DOESN'T TRUST YOU.
That is one way of looking at the chem suppliers actions, however it is more likely that he is doing exactly what he is required to do by law...which is...inform the person or person's who inquire about purchasing items from them(the supplier) and who have made it clear that they are not part of an established company entity, but rather an individual looking to purchase for his/herself...that he will require a picture I.D. from you the buyer as part of any sale.
The purpose of him explaining this requirement to you the prespective buyer is to make it clear that he will do business with you, however he will ONLY do so legally and by the book. And the reason why he did this is because L.E. does occasionally test companies to see whether or not they are complying with the law, continually. And those suppliers that get caught not fulfilling the minimum requirements set forth by the law can get cited or possibly even shut-down (chem-lab[a great source while it lasted] was a perfect example of a company that repeatedly ignored their responsiblity as a reputable supplier<question persons on sales> and didn't record the necessary info from buyers...The end result of chem-lab was they got shut-down and paid some hefty fines for ignoring the law).
So as you should be able to conclude from these things, a supplier asking for I.D. is doing so because they must do so otherwise they risks being put out of business and being fined for not meeting the necessary requirements.
True the supplier might not trust you, but if they are that uncertain about you, then I think they would refuse to sell to you in the first place as they have too much to lose.
To biotech dude...I mean absolutely NO disrespect towards you or anyone else I just didn't want a less learned bee to automatically assume that if a supplier requests reasonable info such as I.D. that this bee has presented themselve in a way that leads a supplier to believe that he/she can't be trusted or is being dishonest. Sorry about rambling on and on regarding the topic, but it is better to bee safe then sorry. Pyrex out of paper to write on ;-)
Yeah and if ya don't PAID me well, I won't INFORMANT you of the answers you are seeking ;-)
(Hive Bee)
09-28-04 14:25
No 533548
Good perspective Pyrex.
Your advice is spot-on; chem-suppliers most often request ID from 'private customers' as a procedure to satisfy regulation. They may also request ID because of suspicion. Sometimes they ask for nothing but cash and a smile
. Just reinterating, IMHO, it seems less suspicious to pose as a legitimate business. They are less likely to ask for ID - rather, just the usual form-filling of business info, address, payment, delivery options etc. Keep in mind Newbees, setting up a 'business' does not mean it is safer or harder for LE to track you down. It could even place you under more suspicion if you dont act like a business or your details dont check out.
There doesn't seem to be an abundance of well-behaved 'hobby-chemists'. Try and think of a better angle. Also, you can communicate and order without having to see the store clerk in person (email/fax/phone). Less likely to choke (like rabbit
)
(Hive Addict)
09-29-04 04:32
No 533698
IMO you need a pretty ugly character to "befriend" someone just because he works somewhere/because you want him to do you a favor.
OOHH PUULLEASE................SPARE ME the "holier than thou" BULLSHIT!
Better try to convince the employee at the counter/phone that you are a serious, honest researcher NOT willing to bend the laws, and prepare to have reasonable explanations at hand when asked about this and that. They have many customers that don't try to befriend them after work and still are considered good customers...
(simply walk in, have a fake business ID at hand - and you aren't distinguishable from the other company guys buing here regularly...
I rely on deception, and you rely on deception, lies and forgery.
How does this make you "ethically superior"?
[sarcasm]BTW, I am constantly overwhelmed with "pangs of guilt" everytime my "buddy" calls me to tell me how "cheap and victimised" I have made them feel, whilst they are lounging besides their new swimming pool.[/sarcasm]
Shoot yee self in the foot over and over rather than attempt the huge facade of befriending a chem supplier, oh my god, if a new bee even thought about doing that it'd be the end of em. That whole imagined concept is nothing short of an huge mess, ordeal, etc.
That is a good point you raise there mindbaby, so I will add an addendum here and now.
ADDENDUM: please disregard my previous post if your brain or balls are the size of tic-tacs.
I gotta question your sanity abolt?!?!
You wouldn't be the first.
And the to say it's "safest" is a lie at best and at worst is inentionally trying to sabotage a new organic chemist??
It is the safest, IMO.
The letters IMO mean..........IN MY OPINION.
Not everyone here is doing a chemistry degree, or works in the industry. Some of us have to rely on our wits.
I will not reply to your "intentionally sabotaging a new organic chemist" insult.
Police get your name from your 'friend' OR from legitimate sales records and come ah knockin on your door.
Why would police get my name from my "friend"?
Frankly, I'D rather they get my name from my sales records of my legit purchases! I don't have to worry about nothing, it's nice and THE SAFEST.
OH Really, thats great!
I am going to stroll down to my local chem supplier tomorrow and order up some pottassium cyanide, pyridine and acetic anhydride. Thanks for the tip.
Are you a cop?
I don't worry what other people are going to say to police, I don't worry what they will find on me or in my house, etc.
COP: Did you buy that shit?
BUDDY: Yes, legally, what is the problem?
COP: What did you do with it?
BUDDY: none of your business
COP: OH!
Just where do get the belief another HUMAN being with no link or ties like family members/spouses is going to protect you??
Just where do get the belief every other HUMAN being with no link or ties like family members/spouses is going to be a moronic, autocrat worshipping, automoton (e.g. A COP, PRISON WARDER etc.)??
Thankfully most people aren't.
Maybe YOU are.
As for appearances, oh wow, WHEN not if, shit hits the fan on that mess (IF you actually did that) that' gettin chems secretly by knowing/friending chem supplier would probably alone guarantee a guilty jury verdict.
HOW?
Mindbaby...........what are you even doing here?
Don't you have some place safer to hang out?
It screams the appearance your doing illegal stuff with such chems.
But it doesn't if you walk in and order them?
But the primary problem is involving other people, like your new friend. I know of few to NO people who will lie/cover-up/protect another person in general. If lucky maybe a spouse or family member!
Then you must live in a soulless, fucked up version of Orwells 1984. I, genuinely, feel very sorry for you, if the people in your life are that fucked up.
Alternatively.............if you have no ability to inspire trust and loyalty, or recognise such traits, then that is your problem
But if you want to waste your time, have a circus, involve other people whom WILL spean the beans to LE when they come askin and a host of other problems, try it and be sure to write about it afterwards (you'll have lotsa time in prison), it would be entertaining..
Your friend could get in legal trouble and spill da beans on your to get help himself, your friend could say something to someone else, etc.
1. Buddy legally buys shit.
2. Buddy lawfully disposes of what he buys.
3. Buddy has absolutely no knowledge of any possible crime, whatsoever.
What crime has "Buddy" committed, and why would "Buddy" need to "spill the beans"?
Human nature includes does include talking, and bragging among others. Having other ppl help/assist you is real bad news. They tell others (their friends) of their actions, what they have done, are doing, they brag.. SOMEONE elses slip of the tongue which screws oneself isn't my idea of safest or smart.
.......and Human Nature also includes people who are capable of thinking for themselves, and who don't hide under their beds, because someone yells BOO!
He took Blood Money
They took Blood