07-27-03 07:50
No 450084
Hey Newbees. How goes it? New to the Hive?
You’ve read all of the FAQ’s at the top of the forums? You know what TFSE is and how to use it? You know the difference between; SWIM, and SWAM?
And now you’re at the point where you are considering attempting a synth? Probably a Nano?
But, now,……what’s that? You say you’re confused? Too much information, you say. Too many methods? Well, never fear, because S/D understands . What you need, is a “KISS”. The “KISS”, program,……….. that is.
So, here we go!
The S/D “KISS” Q & A
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
Summary
This Q & A will cover the basic information that a newbee needs to consider. It will not go into 500 word essays or ramblings of every possible option known to man. It will explain briefly, and in “KISS” terms, the information that you need to know.
But, first a word from our attorney;
Disclaimer;
The contents of this text are purely for entertainment and informational purposes. The author does not advocate, nor partake in illegal activity. The author shall assume no responsibility for any damage resulting directly or indirectly from any information read.
Nothing illegal was used in photos. Any and all “chemicals” pictured are “simulated”, for the purpose of visual aid.
By reading further you acknowledge that you have; Read, understand, and agree with the contents of this disclaimer in whole.If you do not agree, please exit, the thread.
And now,………….back to our show;
The S/D “KISS” Q & A(Part 1)
Q. 1.) What is the first thing that I need to do?
A. Number one, and always number one. Before you even open a box of pills, your safety gear and systems will be in place. If you designate yourself to be the dreamer, then you and only you, are responsible for the physical well being of yourself as well as any people, or property in the immediate area. Period! S/D’s not going to go into any more detail than that, as there is plenty of text already here on that subject.
A thing as simple as a bucket of sand, has saved S/D’s ass, a couple of times, in the past.
Q. 2.) How, is it that we learn?
ACorrect! Very good! We, learn through repetition. We note our mistakes and learn from them as best we can. We, then attempt to not repeat any previous mistakes.
View failure, not as a loss, but a gain, (of experience and knowledge), learn from your mistakes, and you will succeed! You will succeed! Repeat after me,; “I will succeed”.
That’s important, because if you think that you can’t. You’re right!!
Q. 3.)Do I need a bunch of glassware or fancy equipment, to do a simple RNX?
A Absolutely not.
Having lab glassware and lab equipment is a plus. But, especially being a newbee, S/D knows that most of you don’t have the money or the resources. Besides, you don’t even know if you can do a successful synth, or not right?
This is a simple glass salt shaker. You will note, that it is made of very thick glass and is smooth, in shape, as well as clear. S/D bought this item at a thrift store for twenty-five cents. He has done probably upwards of a hundred synths, in the past with this shaker. From the smallest nano up to 3Gr.of pfed(all thought , that’s really pushing the threshold)
Q. 4.) What parts of the pre-RNX phase should I bee most concerned with?
Clean and dry. All starting precursors must bee clean and dry. The majority of concerned should bee focused on the pfed. Un-arguably the number one cause of failed RNX’s is sub-clean feedstock.
S/D recommends, regardless of the extraction technique used, the Geez precip technique be utilized. Post 432344 (geezmeister: "pseudo precipitation technique", Stimulants) ,………… Doing it will remove residual gaks and if not getting it completely clean, should get it clean enough for a successful RNX. (As the world of Gak-ta-lak, changes rapidly, this may in the future become untrue)
Photos, from top to bottom; MBRP, LGRP and pfed.
Q. 6.How about set up methods? How does one decide? You’ve got the condenser, push-pull, balloon, kitty litter, ect.
A. S/D’s personal opinion is that too much emphasis is placed on these methods.
Bottom line is, all you need is something that will keep some HI, in your reaction vessel and contain some smoke.
Q. 7. So what kind of setup should I use?
A. This is the setup that S/D recommends. It will work, stand alone, on top of a condenser, or with a P/P(attach P/P hose in place of punch-ball)
S/D is not sure whose idea this originally was. He saw it mentioned years ago in an old write-up. He has since adopted it and uses it exclusively. It carries many advantages.
1.) Easy to construct.
2.) The rubber stopper can easily be changed for different sized flasks.
3.) Generally requires no additional sealing, I.E, tape.
4.) Takes a lot of the guess work out of H20.
5.) Inexpensive, so it is disposable or reusable.
6.) Allows you to add H20 as needed to RNX, without releasing the contents of the RNX vessel.
Pyrex “T”’s are recommended. S/D scored a dozen, a while back for $5.00, on one of those on-line auction places.
Poly “T”’s (pictured lower right) can be substituted, but need to bee replaced regularly.
The size pictured is 1/4 X 1/4 X ¼.
Never use metal of any kind.
A punch-ball is also recommended. Standard balloons can be used, but are subject to rupture. S/D has had punch-balls grow to nearly the size of a basket ball and not rupture.
Q.8 O.K., so now what about ratios? It seems every bee suggests a different one. How do I know which one is right for me?
A That’s a very good question. One that can lead to much confusion. One can spend countless hours reading text and still be left wondering, What is the right ratio?
So, here’s the deal. All ratios given by experienced bees are correct. Now, you’re even more confused, huh? S/D will explain.
The standard ratios by the book, using L/G precursors are 1: 1: .3(1/3) E:I:R
Using MB/RP this should be adjusted to 1:1:1
Next we only need to know one simple fact. That is; It is not possible to over-reduce, pfed, using the REI method.
This means that any ratios that the “R” and “I” are higher (than the book ),are acceptable.
Loading up on the “I” and “R” will sometimes over come gaked pfed.
S/D recommends that you do not exceed 1:2:2, simply because anything beyond that is overkill and a simple waste of precursors.
End Part 1
Stay tuned for part 2, when S/D will cover important topics like, cook times and temps., Gassing and Power Boat Racing!!
1 Corinthians 13
(Stranger)
07-27-03 09:15
No 450106
that kind of stuff really helps the newer bees... and they appreciate your effort.
power to the people.
(Stranger)
07-27-03 14:45
No 450146
this newbee really appreciates this! looking forward to part 2 and the rest! thanks!
(Hive Bee)
07-28-03 05:00
No 450286
OK.
But construction of a great home-made condensor, a paragraph on water and why it is such a critical reagent and general guidlines on appropriate glass is more to my tastes.
You left the water reagent out of the ratio instructions entirely, when preceding you give some indication to the newbee of it's vitality without going in to any great detail.
The trendy water injection device for example isn't going to help if you aren't experienced in reading visual signs. Is it?
(Hive Addict)
07-28-03 06:31
No 450297
You left the water reagent out of the ratio instructions entirely, when preceding you give some indication to the newbee of it's vitality without going in to any great detail.
H2o will be covered under cook times and temps, as they are inter related. Part one was covering preparation. As water isn't pre-prepared it was not included.
1 Corinthians 13
(Hive Bee)
07-28-03 06:31
No 450298
that is his next step in part 2. The actual Rxn, and water and all of that will be explained at the beginning of part 2. That is how Swid reads it anyway.
Swid likes the write up so far, She especially likes the pictures, Hope he takes pics of the rxn in progress with signs to look for, that would be cool. Thanks S/D
(Hive Bee)
07-28-03 06:37
No 450299
You must have been writting your reply at the same time as Swid!
(Hive Addict)
07-28-03 06:43
No 450301
Indeed!............................
You're learning well!!
1 Corinthians 13
(Stranger)
07-28-03 11:22
No 450348
Thank you for this! I can't wait for part two!
(Hive Addict)
07-28-03 11:44
No 450349
Yes Swim has been dreaming with the T fitting and syringe for gradual dh20 additions for almost a yr now and incorporated this feature into the setup upon learning of its theoretical significance from Squidippy.
It provides for a more controlled rxn. When the punch ball starts to get too big, some extra water can bee introduced mid rxn to keep more of the HI in solution rather then escaping into the balloon as a gas.
Swim was wondering when you were going to put this on the board.
He has seen the 16" punch balloons get as big as a basketball as well. Esp during a 100g dream. When it starts to get out of line and look a little scary... Just add water.
Edit: Swim now dreams with a ghetto 5 gal bucket condenser in between the balloon and T fitting. (Works great for a 24 hr reflux)
Kudos!
Supreme White Powder
(Hive Bee)
07-29-03 01:46
No 450475
Try not to rush yourself though, there's a lot of really good discussions about HI concentration and water. If you read one thoroughly beforehand it'll bee much easier.
Anyway great idea and the photos are nice!
(Hive Addict)
07-29-03 07:41
No 450514
If you read one thoroughly beforehand it'll bee much easier.
S/D has been dreaming for nearly ten years now, and has been at the Hive for three. He tallys up with 1,156 posts.
So where's all of your write-ups Mr.halfkast?
Hmm, Oh, I see you're just a critic,......mmmmm?
1 Corinthians 13
(Hive Bee)
07-29-03 09:50
No 450518
So are you saying my criticism is wrong?
Why don't you focus more on learning chemistry instead of adding to this artwork. I've seen the information you just offered in a multitude of posts.
Mostly the ones that I considered bin material upon reading-because I didn't see any chemistry I could read about and trust.
What you produced is bin material and unecessarily dangerous. The injection device is potentially workable.
- No condensor
- Balloons as a first line of defense against hot strongly acidic gases, which advice if a newbee combines with the advice of patience given all over this forum from good people such as geezmeister and settles down for a rest may wakeup to physiological problems associated with HI as per MSDS.
- If they try the dry and hot route you apprently suggest may produce PH3.
So if you are suggesting this shortened form, then a push/pull tank or a tall container of activated carbon would be safer. Wouldn't it
- You don't explain water, the fundemental quantity which determines the concentration. (You will bee doing this in the 2nd write-up? )
Well listen, I'm sure you'll get a lot of support for your 10 years of mastering your art and 3 years at the Hive.
Your criticism of me is true enough.
(Hive Addict)
07-30-03 15:23
No 450705
No condensor
- Balloons as a first line of defense against hot strongly acidic gases,
I think that even critics should learn to read ;
It will work, stand alone, on top of a condenser, or with a P/P(attach P/P hose in place of punch-ball)
I've seen the information you just offered in a multitude of posts.
Might you reference some of them for us please.
So are you saying my criticism is wrong?
No, what I said what credentials do you have?
Why don't you focus more on learning chemistry instead of adding to this artwork
So, here’s the deal. All ratios given by experienced bees are correct. Now, you’re even more confused, huh? S/D will explain.
The standard ratios by the book, using L/G precursors are 1: 1: .3(1/3) E:I:R
Using MB/RP this should be adjusted to 1:1:1
Next we only need to know one simple fact. That is; It is not possible to over-reduce, pfed, using the REI method.
This means that any ratios that the “R” and “I” are higher (than the book ),are acceptable.
What do you call this?
Most chemistry books that I have seen include pictures.
If you could comprehend, you would have read the tiltle of this thread.
Where did you see, “Advanced details of REI RNX”????
Note, S/D from this point will no longer waste his time responding to the posts of those who have no information to offer, so instead choose to waste bandwidth.
1 Corinthians 13
(Hive Bee)
07-30-03 17:34
No 450718
Look calm down, stop stressing, thinking negatively and getting yourself in a combative stance, remember, all I want is the best possible SQIDIPPY write-up for me to save to my HD. It's not my problem you have a personality dissorder where you feel you are entitled to behave like George W. Bush. Just accept critics opinions and consider them.
I'm not going to dig up posts with references to balloons and pictures.
Basically, I wouldn't bet my life on a balloon, and I definetly wouldn't burden a balloon with the responsibility of raising the pressure inside this type of environment to increase the concentration of the HI.
I think for that, starting with vacuum, I'd have to know how much pressure the flask can take, the volume of the gases produced and the size of the flask. I don't really like any ideas that I don't have numbers to support plus at least a 5-10% tolerance in theory.
-Theres an animated gif by Jacked in the multimedia section of ../rhodium thats visually effective.
-Red Phosphorus and Iodine Reduction of Pseudoephedrine to Methamphetamine by PinkPencil.
(Hive Bee)
07-30-03 21:44
No 450739
Basically, I wouldn't bet my life on a balloon, and I definetly wouldn't burden a balloon with the responsibility of raising the pressure inside this type of environment to increase the concentration of the HI.
I have used balloons on over a hundred rxns and although i have had a few leaks and even had one pop, none of these situations were life threatening. The rp/i/e rxn can bee dangerous but lets not get too overdramatic. After having a couple flask explode back in the day when i thought pressure would bee a good experiment. I have come to find that this rxn is actually a pretty safe one if you stay within the limits s/d has set.
Why not just chill and let him finish this writeup without all the bullshit in between?
Lookin good so far squid! Now get on with it!
It wasn't Me!
(Stranger)
07-30-03 23:29
No 450747
SD, first off, un grande gracias for your goodwill, as with all who have posted with the lowly n00b in mind, your efforts are greatly appreciated.
My point; if possible, please tell us when we can expect the next (and subsequent) installments of your guide.
GOD "Don't make me come down there!"
(Hive Addict)
07-31-03 06:39
No 450807
Hopefully soon. The weather here had been in the 90 deg F., plus, for the last few days. While peeps like Ware and Geez, would probably consider that a cooling trend, poor ole S/D just doesn't do so well in such temperatures. However it's suppose to cool down tomorrow and S/D should be able to get something done. He won't make any promises, but he's hoping to have it ready in a few days.
1 Corinthians 13
(Hive Bee)
07-31-03 06:57
No 450809
>>I have used balloons on over a hundred rxns and although i have had a few leaks and even had one pop, none of these situations were life threatening.
heh thats good, I'm sure you know in your own heart that that is the only likely outcome.
(Hive Addict)
07-31-03 14:17
No 450877
Swim can attest to the fact that the furthest away from direct heat one can position the balloon, the longer its sustainability and the least likely it is to leak or burst.
A condenser isn't necessary. Swim has run 120 gs in the middle of summer, 100 deg C temp (oil bath)with a 1/2 or 3/4" ID PVC braided tubing. This tubing can bee connected with a sleeve cut from a bicycle intertube, (electrical taped in place)
Just simply run the tubing up about 5-6 feet and then connect the balloon.
Braided PVC tubing likes to take inconvenient bends. This bullshit can bee overcome with a little help from dental floss and roofing nails.
He dreams that 100+g rxns are possible. (1000ml flask)
The HI doesn't destroy the balloons, the heat does! (ISHO)
Swimming with sharks and slithering with snakes
(Hive Bee)
08-02-03 06:40
No 451175
I wouldn't suggest useing lime glass [salt shaker ect.] for
a rxn vessel and that picture of pseudoephedrine doesnt
look like hcl needles or freebase crystals maybe its my
eyes.
http://www.eshamtheboogieman.com/ppppow.
(Hive Bee)
08-02-03 07:14
No 451184
at the top I does say that he did not "actually" do this conversion only simulated.... but he could have cosent abetter picture swim agrees...
"Vanity is defintely my favourite sin"
-Devil's advocate
(Newbee)
08-02-03 08:31
No 451192
Why not use some copper tubing from an old cooler or the hardware store (around three meters), bend into a corkscrew with a loop diameter a good six inches wider than the area of the reaction flask and heat source that it will be suspended above, attach to flask mouth via stopper and tape, cap with a punch balloon, support with wire, and cool with fan/freezer gel packs during the reaction? HI (aq) doesn't react with copper, copper conducts heat better than glass and won't shatter if bumped or knocked over, and the design and tube length are superior to the popular straight glass tube.
I'm new to this shit, so forgive me if this has already been shot down for whatever reason
(Hive Bee)
08-04-03 20:15
No 451644
the point I've been trying to make is simply that a condensor is easily made and easily kept cold for 12hrs. The balloon can bee kept on top.
ScottyDogg, thats horrifying that you'd go to the effort of preparing a large reaction like that without preparing the most basic of condensors.
beyond belief and reason.
(Hive Addict)
08-04-03 21:51
No 451658
Halfkast: Sometimes it helps to read them both...
Here we go again for like the 5th time. Swim can't remember how many times he has been an advocate of the homemade condenser, regardless of which one a bee might choose.
Can't get any easier then a 5 gallon bucket, braided tubing, a sleeve from a bicycle intertube and "imitation ice" (Balloon on top)
The basic principle of the idea can bee found here.
Swim believes Mister_Clean said it best.
A great read especially for newbees.
But yes Swim is lazy, does not ALWAYS use one. Truth bee known, it is NOT necessary...
P/P, Run the hose down the sink and past the water trap, kitty litter, hose + balloon, condenser + balloon, condenser + water trap, or just run the hose out a window.
A newbee has many options...
But yes Halfkast, since bees should concentrate on safety first, this is where they might want to start.
Read all 30 posts in the thread.
A condenser will NOT protect one from the potential fire hazards associated with phosphine.
But anyway...
Post 28988 (simonsays7: "Home made reflux condenser", Chemicals & Equipment)
Refuse/Resist
(spineless pussy)
08-05-03 03:12
No 451706
Why not use some copper tubing from an old cooler or the hardware store
You go right ahead and do that. If S/D was you he’d make out a will first, however.
It does not really matter what setup you use. All you're looking to do is contain the smoke and keep some HI in the RNX vessel. You can stick the hose in your ass, (better to use your dogs ass), and it will get the job done.
S/D apologizes for his shitty camera.
Is this better??
Sticks and stones, may break my bones,...But whips and chains , excite me
(Stranger)
08-08-03 05:06
No 452389
Hey...any updates on when we can expect part 2? Hopefully the weather has started cooperating. Liked the pic at the end of this thread!
(Hive Bee)
08-13-03 04:24
No 453215
the point I've been trying to make is simply that a condensor is easily made and easily kept cold for 12hrs. The balloon can bee kept on top.
ScottyDogg, thats horrifying that you'd go to the effort of preparing a large reaction like that without preparing the most basic of condensors.
beyond belief and reason.
The point we are trying to make is that its not necessary because a balloon is sufficient. Most of us have used a condenser, but unless your doing a long reflux then one is not necessary.
We know this because we have tried this both ways many times. Its called experience.
It wasn't Me!
(Hive Bee)
04-02-04 22:21
No 498722
Is a second part still in the works?
This thread has been referenced by this bee many times for both personal reasons and to help others.
absorb what is useful, reject what is useless
(formless fortitude?)
04-03-04 20:58
No 498894
If only I can find the time!!
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.-Mark Twain
04-08-04 09:05
(Rated as: UTFSE!)
(Hive Bee)
04-15-04 01:23
No 500870
why does our friend who would use copper pipe need to draw up a will??.....and don't say,"lack of oxygen to the brain"...i want to know what happens before that...fire? explosion? plague?
the horror