11-28-03 01:33
No 473526
My friend has recently being diong push pulls, using 3:3:1 ratio. Thats with lab grade rp, Iodine and OTC phsuedo with success. Unfortunatly all the lab grade rp has dried up which meant seeking alternative means of rp. He gathered up a shit load of match boxes, cut the striking pads off, soaked them in acetone, decanted off acetone, washed with sulphuric acid, washed with HCL, washed with acetone, washed with distilled water, prefired with iodine and peroxide, used dh2o to free up rp, washed with acetone and then more dh2o. The push pull was then attempted just as before with nothing to show for it but a white minty tasting powder that near choked me when smoking it. Could it be the brand of matchboxs used? My friend used red heads.
(Hive Addict)
11-28-03 02:01
No 473528
Before ya get jumped again...Let's clarify redheads shall we.
SWIO meant to say redhots I'm sure...It could easily bee mistaken for lingo probs as meaning the matchheads themselves!....Hey...it happens!
If the RP pre-fired with no problems then it's more likely the pillcleaning techniques and SWIO has been gaaked!
Whenever failures occur as described...one should look at the extraction and cleanliness of the feedstock first as beeing the root cause. Then do a driveby and troubleshoot in the second likelyhood...that beeing the ratio of precursors. If ya haven't clipped anybody yet...then look at the cooktime/temps
Ibee finds that all that extra cleaning of MBRP isn't necessary since he does numerous Tone and Denat alky washes.
Acids as a last resort if tons of paper or ink got through.
Hope this helps!
Peace of the RXN
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
(Stranger)
11-28-03 02:47
No 473531
Its redheads the brand and i live in oz. The pfed was extracted with ethanol, followed by 3 washes with acetone.
(Hive Addict)
11-28-03 03:03
No 473533
My Bad....Ibee lives in the united states of schitzaphrenia and Toto ate the Tinman.
Look Up the latest pill extraction methods to rectify the situation...and remedy the pillclean-UP error.
Therein lies the problem!
Peace of the RXN
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
(Stranger)
11-28-03 03:13
No 473534
creers
(Hive Addict)
11-28-03 05:16
No 473551
Was everything done the same as with the previous rxns with the exception of the change from lgrp to mbrp? If so then i would try skipping the prefiring of the mbrp. How much peroxide did you use to prefire it? When you prefire mbrp you are using all of the small amount of wp contained within the rp during the prefire. I recommend skipping the prefire and see what happens. Don't use peroxide on your rp cause it will oxidize it. However, if you changed pills or cleaning methods then this could bee part of the problem as well.
It wasn't Me!
(Hive Addict)
11-28-03 14:12
No 473627
Swim takes a small amount of rp and adds a small amount of I2.If it starts smoking without adding peroxide he does not prefire.Hope this helps.
(Hive Addict)
11-28-03 14:23
No 473629
If anything is left standing...Blast away!
According to the detailed description of the RP clean-up, one could easily assume, what was left of the MBRP was clean.
By all accounts from our OZ bees lately:
>The pfed was extracted with ethanol, followed by 3 washes with acetone.
This simply won't cut it on the pfed extraction nowadaze.
>However, if you changed pills or cleaning methods
Shorty: There have been times that Ibee has hit brick walls using same pills, same cleaning technique. A slight shift in the formulation can have the best of bees pulling thare hair out
in a search for "what went wrong?"It's the first area Ibee looks at in the process of elimination.
SWIO didn't mention the color of the MBRP after the assaults either which would have helped some...But even if some MBRP got ate UP, it doesn't change the fact the rxn likely failed due to rxn inhibitors not being removed on the frontside pfed clean-UP!
Peace of the RXN
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
11-28-03 23:51
(Rated as: UTFSE!)
(Hive Addict)
11-29-03 05:55
No 473720
I was only providing another possibility based on the posters information. Since he specifically mentioned that he switched from using lab grade rp to mbrp then this would bee one of the first places I would check. On top of that he says he used peroxide to prefire and didn't mention how much was used. I remember back when i first started i poured 18% peroxide over my rp while in a filter and thought it was super clean. Then i tried to react it and of course the rxn failed miserably. He could have easily did the same.
Finally, i did say that the pills could also bee the problem but by the information given i would still be more concerned about the rp.
To answer the last question, i don't remember the color of oxidized rp but if it is oxidized then it is no longer usable and there is no way to fix it. Its just like phosphorous acid when it oxidizes to phosphoric acid then there is no going back. At least not that i know of.
It wasn't Me!
(Hive Bee)
11-29-03 11:28
No 473747
Or do you mean another place?
Pulling with ethanol and three acetone washes? Swig would suggest that if swio has really been getting away with this in Oz up until now, then the holiday is over!
(Hive Addict)
11-29-03 16:39
No 473774
Shorty...no offense taken.
Oxidation suggests decomposition...
From what Ibee understands it takes alot to completely kill RP...whatever grade!
Strong undilute acids turn it gray...
All the times in Ibees ealy daze using h2o2 on RP it did seem to discolor it so he stopped that real QUICK!
Some solvents coat the RP....
Any way ya look at it....
Unless it's re-run MBRP, If it ain't red...something is wrong.
The lack of detail concerning the amount of h2o2 used on the MBRP isn't what helped arrive at the order in which the process of elimination should begin here.
If a bee has previous experience with LabGrade RP...he'll know how to Go about determining if the MBRP is too weak to fire off a rxn.
The answers and solutions are here!
Peace of the RXN
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
(Stranger)
12-02-03 10:48
No 474242
it sure is the brand .. they are crap now dont worry about them they are the dotted strickers .. full of sand n glue not much RP on them at all.
wha u want is the paradise brand found at woolies .. or any other brand that has a deep dark red/maroon colour strip (solid)
5mg RP = 1 book
200 books = 1gm RP
pretty wasteful .. if u can get phos acid .. go that way
cheers bye
(Stranger)
12-02-03 11:07
No 474244
Swim can confirm what Harlequin suggested, paradise brand is the go, found at "the fresh food people"
They come in packs of 10 boxes and swim musta bought 150 packs of 10 over about 4 weeks (from different outlets and checkouts). All this yielded about 50g of mbrp, after all the washings etc swim was left with 35g of really clean flour-like mbrp which smokes easily on mixing with iodine.Swim investigated many of the Oz brand matchboxes and this is the best one swim found. Good luck...
(Hive Addict)
12-02-03 12:29
No 474253
So was the rp the problem then or do you still not know?
It wasn't Me!
(Stranger)
12-03-03 12:20
No 474476
YEAH sure was. Ibee started again from scratch. Accept this time Ibee used Toluene to free up the mbrp of the strikers and the last solvent wash with isoprophanol, then one dh20. Ibee Did push pull, 1:1:3 ratio. From 21g of PSUE, 16.8g of mothers milk. Thanks everybody who contributed to Ibee's success. And just for the record i dont want to hear anybody talking b
sweet
12-03-03 13:17
(Rated as: redundant)
(Stranger)
12-04-03 02:07
No 474572
Ok had sleep lets try again. First of all the strikers were cut from the boxs, then soaked in toluene for about an hour. Next the remaining mbrp was removed by rubbing the strikers face to face in toluene. Next the toluene was filtered through a couple of coffe filters. Then ibee soaked in a 1:1 h2so4\H2O and brang to boil for 10min, then an equal amout of hcl was added and boiled again for 10min, then drained and let dry, next ibee boiled in isoprophanol for 10min, decanted, then added dh2o for the final wash but did not boil this time. The pill extraction was done with 12 packs of otc sue no generic crud, they were extracted with methalated spirits. Three toluene washes and three acetone washes got it clean as fuck, my yeld was 21.0gm. Next the reaction was carried out in a 500ml rbf along with 21gm of LG iodine, along with 7gm of the new mbrp and shaken about to mix up ingredients. Next ibee takes one of big fishing balloons and puts it over top of rbf and raps electrical tape around it tightly. Next ibee places in room temp oil bath and bring up the heat slowly until things start to fire(48.7 deg cel). Ibee slowly brings the heat up all the way to 100 deg cel. It took mebee 90min. Imbee sure you all know the rest. Ibees yelds form this experiment was 16.8gm from 21gm. So ibee thinks that the rp was the problem ibee will try some of the old mbrp with new pill cleaning technique and post soon.
the cheaper more expensive alternative
(Stranger)
12-08-03 07:55
No 475376
Hey all,
It seems as though most woolies have stopped selling the "parashit" brand, and are now using "unreliance" brand. These are made in Turkey. Any idea how well these work?
(Stranger)
12-20-03 06:39
No 477945
Does some brands of strikers also contain glass?
If so how do you think the standard wash with acetone/DH20/HCl/H2SO4 would work?
(Hive Bee)
12-20-03 15:12
No 477989
SWIW noticed in the very first post that a "minty" harsh smoked powder resulted. Swiw had similar results with regaurds to the 1/06's in the USA. Noticed it again when testing other pills. Then recently worked with some trusty pills (known good) SWIW put the acetone wash from the final pill wash in the freezer. It droped another 2.0 grams. This was used in the next batch. The cook temp went higher than usual and the final boil after water addition at the end was in the micro. The yeild as expected suffered but the odd thing was SWIW could detect that fishy mint smell he had before mistaken for a chloro smell. UTFSE and no results from mint or minty. Decided SWIW was losing it until now. Was the pill stock, and RP completely dried of all acetone and what was the highest temp reached when the mint was produced?
Until now SWIW never thought about his rp containing something that under the right conditions would do this. Still find it hard to believe but if some others are experiencing the same.... Rp from matchbooks water-proof.
(Hive Addict)
12-20-03 19:45
No 478013
Does some brands of strikers also contain glass?
If so how do you think the standard wash with acetone/DH20/HCl/H2SO4 would work?
Yes, mbrp does contain glass which provides the roughness on the striker. This is why more mbrp is needed in a rxn than lgrp. The glass will not hurt the rxn but it does add weight to the rp making it impossible to know the exact weight of rp.
All this has been discussed many times itfse.
It wasn't Me!
(Hive Bee)
12-21-03 23:27
No 478257
Only one brand SWIT has access to: "ladies best friend". Used to work with good cleanable yeilds until recently. They're still the maroon strikers in identicle packaging/strikers as before though deceptively they no longer contain nearly as much RP as they did. But they do contain a lot more gluey horrible contaminents. No matter how much washes, soaks, filtering, acid boiling, decanting, etc, all to no avail. Yield inc. glass is probably <0.1g per 50 books by the time most of the crap is removed, it never reaches flowing red-powder clean. Scrapeless extractions- now they all fail and fail means no yeild... Well these books used to clean up with cleaned yield inc. glass nearing 0.5g per 50 as a fine red powder.
There are the redesigned type of the "ladies best friend" with the black strikers that come in an all cardboard box...lol...these badass books are quite the "unreliance" indeed
"True love" is a thrill
Add a methyl group or two
Get it in a pill!
(Newbee)
12-28-03 09:01
No 479433
SWICP recently encountered these all cardboard boxes of MB. Would these cause based rxn fluid to turn an awful brown color and be hard to get the goodies? When this happened the first time, used TFSE and found references to "root beer" and Orange Gak II. Also first time had to use pills that SWICP wasn't familiar with. Next time, SWICP has pills that has always gotten results from, still followed all info he had learned. SWICP told me that the next rxn used new mbrp but from same brand with the new cardboard box. Everything appeared to run ok, showed all the signs SWICP had seen in other successful rxn, but when basing, same thing. Based fluid turned an awful brown color and had trouble w/emulsions. Only thing for these 2 rxn was the mbrp. Any suggestions?
(goat)
12-28-03 15:12
No 479464
excess I2 will ugly up your post rxn fluid as you describe
(Hive Bee)
12-29-03 23:13
No 479674
Suggestion- don't use those worthless black-diamonds. Even the maroon ones have gotten very difficult to clean and yield well- maybe moreso than OGII 120s! SWIT's only ever used the black ones once and for their intended purpose...when his lighter ran dry
The free I2 in post indicates that either it never completed or there wasn't enough actual RP to recycle so to end with clearish-yellow non-cloudy sol. If it never completed from insufficient or excessively contaminated RP, expect that shortly after mixing the I2 and RP that the sol. remained dark/cloudy and stayed that way- whether it "bubbled" or not. Did you collect anything in the filter right afterwards? Well don't assume its RP if its reddish and recycle it! If its not red even, doubt itd be RP at all or anything worth the cleaning! Did the filter collect any I2 stains with possible tarry black-silverish stuff as well? Now if that was present with red stuff, one might ask why it didn't react with the I2! That red stuffs imposter RP (or maybe coated with pill gaak but TPs assuming your sure it had nothing to do with the PFED). If it was red-maroon and with no significant amount of I2 also in the filter, was still probly mostly red glass, red paints or glues, iron oxides, and other crud. Otherwise it would've been completely used up leaving nothing but the sol. plus the free I2 that couldn't be recycled back to HI. Again, assuming the FEeD was clean.
As for the maroon ones that have the red paper wrapped, if anyone happens to have or suddenly start having bad luck with the scrapeless extractions ie IPA, HCl, blenders, etc, or filterless methods then there still is a way to end up with some usable RP without it taking that all long...
IPA and slide the maroon off...don't have to go 1-by-1, doing 3-5@once is WAY faster and can still get nearly all of it if the book ends were cut fairly flush to the strip and given a quick pre-dunk in IPA. No need to waste bottle(s) of IPA for just lets say 8-15 boxes (8-15 would only take SWIT maybe several hundred mLs)- and of course, 91% is worth using and does work better as its usually nearly as cheap as dilute 50-70%s. Cutting, well if no papercutter, still can cut 5+@once depending on the scizzors used. On the other hand, filterless and cold methods failing to yield decently or clean properly, well use the filters and boil the solvents then. Its not much harder and the mechanical losses don't seem to be that significant, esp compared with PFED. On a final note, surface area, as with PFED is very important with most red-diamonds, esp the HCl which won't do shit swirled+cold against a buncha sticky chunks...thats easily solved...
"True love" is a thrill
Add a methyl group or two
Get it in a pill!
(Hive Bee)
07-26-04 02:59
No 521636
They also contain ManganeseSo i spose a bit of a boil in Hci would rid that
Ask no question's, and i will tell no lies.