<a href="https://www.the-hive.ws/forum/showflat.pl?Number=478757&page=47&view=&sort=5&Search=&vc=&new=&start=0&xrated=y&&URLForums=" title="Click here to show this downrated post">Use NH3 or stay w/RP?</a> (Rated as: UTFSE!) </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478773"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> geezmeister (Of Counsel) 12-23-03 20:49 No 478773 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> meth, well... is meth (Rated as: good read) </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> With due deference to and an aside from the P2P choir who sing the praises of racemic meth, meth is meth. It doesn't matter how you make the meth molecule--- meth is meth. If its overreduced, you have something other than meth mixed in, and if it is not completely reduced, you have something other than meth mixed in. The birch done with lithium produces meth, if done properly. So does the rP/I2 reaction, done properly, and the hypo and phos acid synths done properly. The issue is not which synth makes better meth. The question is which synth is the easiest for you to master. Once mastered, they all make the same product. <hr>mostly harmless </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478783"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> awayman (Newbee) 12-23-03 22:42 No 478783 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> P2P </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> Swim hasn't had to many dealings with this group of fellow foil folders, seems the stuff just hasn't been available in this area (Westerners tipped somebody off) any way, surely they agree that meth is to meth is to a meth molecule. Or do they claim it's cleaner in a sense due the sythesis used and precursors involved? Just wondering. <hr>awayman "Ho Ho Hell!" </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478811"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> spectralshift (Hive Bee) 12-24-03 03:18 No 478811 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> For me, it's just confusion as to whether... </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> For me, it's just confusion as to whether which synths produce which isomer(s), it's not that I can't find the info, it's right here at the hive or rhodium's, i just can't be fugged. I know HI reductions produce D- from L-E and D-PS. The one which produces all D- is the most potent technically speaking. Any preference topwards a mixture of L- and D- is subjective, but they are probably right in this preference as these people know what is what in all likelyhood. Do L- and D- have a different duration? For me if highness and potency was the goal, then I wouldn't alter the D- quantity for my ideal high, but I might add L- isomer on top of the quantity to see how it effects the overall... </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478814"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> xtaldoc (Stranger) 12-24-03 04:30 No 478814 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> Swix does not feel confused about this one... </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> -And that's rare cuz Swix's general level of confusion can bee rather high... Anyhow, with respect to the difference between the d & l isomers of meth: Suppossedly the l isomer is approximately 1/20th as potent as the dextrorotatory one. However, this is a rather simplistic explanation, since its effects are also qualitatively different. There is a more pronounced cardiac effect, for instance. What Swix would really like to add here is a possibly interesting personal observation: Some time ago, Swix was allegedly setting up a large operation. The goal was to produce large amounts of P2P and methylamine and run it all off under one roof. This scale of operation required much more funds that Swix had immediate access to and so a large amount of L-Ephedrine was first reduced (cheaper & easier) in order to fund the whole thing. All went well and the product made it to the marketplace where it was recieved with much love. Phase 2 was then undertaken and dl meth was produced in large quantity. BUT there was a huge problem. Swix's customers (all of them) complained loudly that they vastly preferred the ephedrine dope over the new stuff and that the high was 'askew' on the dl product. At first, Swix was quite butt-hurt. What is really wierd is that in a short while these same customers had a change of heart. Swix did lots of thinking about this and reached the following conclusions: Since these folks were all previously using the d isomer, they had a selective tolerance for it; and little or none for the l isomer. When they suddenly began using the mixed isomer, this caused an unbalanced effect due to the apparent augmentation of the l isomer's effects. Once they got used to the mixed isomer, they found themselves in friendly skies. Most of these folks later reported that they somewhat preferred the mixed isomer, in the end, despite the fact that it is overall less potent than d meth. They gave two interesting reasons: The first one was that they seemed to grade the high as more 'happy' or 'uplifting', as compared to the d isomer seeming rather 'overdriven' by comparrison. The second reason given had to do with tolerance. They (mostly) felt that tolerance rose more gradually with the mixed isomer and seemed to sort of level off. This was also associated with less 'amphetamine psychoses' effects after long term use, than they had experienced with the d isomer. Swix, therefore, actually feels that there may bee an unreported (as far as he knows) beneficial effect that can bee attributed to the presence of l isomer in the mix. If anybees have had similar experiences or observations, it would bee interesting to hear them. </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478837"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> callen (Hive Bee) 12-24-03 08:01 No 478837 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> dl-Meth is the cat's meow... </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> Reason being...d-meth is psychological, i.e; mainly affecting the mind...and No hard on. l-meth is more physically oriented. You can play your woman like a fine Fender Strat or Gibson Les Paul.The physical sensations are overwhelming. 5-hour sex marathons are the norm...your dick stays rock hard the whole time whereas with just d-meth you have a half-rigid, limp dick that is semi-hard at ejaculation. Doesn't impress the woman much. P-2-P meth is the way to go.This...from one who cooked p-2-p/methamine in a pressure cooker and then, reduced with HCL and Aluminum foil, and based, then extracted with 'Starting Fluid"...way back in the 70's and early 80's. Before the Spanish boys got ahold of the R/P/I synth. Following the Ephedrine to P-2-P Rxn yields P-2-P and methamine sulfate...which can then be used to produce (dl-desoxyamphetamine) 0r METH... i.e., Ha, Ha,...as in the old Wick's Inhalers.Try it... your ol'Lady, and you will LOVE again.Look on Rhodium's site for infro. By the way...have you seen that darn cat? <hr>callen + A.L.F. </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478875"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> morpheus (Hive Addict) 12-24-03 10:55 No 478875 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> Which one? </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> Considering the hassle and time involved in getting clean RP or HI(unless you have an unlimited supply of that too). Swim would bee out buying the gas mask and wooden spoon now. Homeland security has us on an orange alert now and a good mask shouldn't bee too hard to find.Meanwhile swims on his own orange alert.Damn this is the first time swims seen it. </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478961"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> awayman (Newbee) 12-25-03 01:41 No 478961 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> Control the Enviroment..... </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> From swims experience with the spoon and mask and also when he made the switch to the hypo way of doing things, certain temps, length of reactions, feed stock purity, and alot of different variables come into play. Swim dreamed that he once long ago right after the hypo switch that if he kept the hypo/I2/psuedo right below the temp of the second reaction (like 76�c) this would change the outcome, so he did, he took extra care of the mixture slowly heating and not letting it go off for 2 hours then just bumping the heat up to start it to boiling itself, then going black, then clearing up, then cool, base, extract, and it was exceptional. Girlfriend had a big smile. (Open vessle days) Ammonia days, EXTRA EXTRA care had to be taken, purity of ammonia was a huge issue, but when the purity was up so was the girlfriend. Now a condenser is in play, with a condom attached (not for sex) and the results are half and half, seems the 15g to 25g size batches with 6 to 8 hour refluxes produce less of an effect than 8g to 10g with 2 to 4 hour refluxes. 8 to 10 being more potent. Swim tries to maintain the same type of enviroment conditions. Always ultra clean. Same quality in chemicals each time. This makes it easier to find out what you fucked up in your procedure. So what is happening that is causing the L and D changes here? <hr>awayman "foiled again" </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post479009"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> SHORTY (Hive Addict) 12-25-03 10:12 No 479009 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> Very good observation </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> I have been observing very similar results to the ones you describe. However, up until i read your post, i have just assumed it was all in my head or due to tolerance levels. This is because i have been told over and over again that meth is meth. I totally agree with that statement. However, there are 2 types of meth, d and l. But again i have been told over and over that d meth eannot become l meth and that when using pseudo with the hypo synth you will get d meth and no l. I have no chemistry education other than what i have learned here and elsewhere on the net so i tend to listen to what the more experienced bees say. Nevertheless, i have had 2 hour hypo synths that produced some i the best i have ever had and had some 12-24 hour refluxes produce some of the weakest i have ever had. The opposite has also happened. All batches were between the 6g to 25g size. I never even thought about linking the size of the rxns as you did. I wish i would have kept a record of all my rxns. I know i would have enough data to find the answer by now. Anyways, thanks for sharing your observations and be sure to report any additional info on the subject as there is hardly any info on hypo experiences. <hr>It wasn't Me! </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post479181"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> etherbase (Stranger) 12-26-03 16:55 No 479181 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> Reply to all. </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> Thanks for the responses. Swim feels that he'll stick with the RP/I2 route. Swim also used the fucking search engine extensively, hence the reason for confusion due to so many opionions. </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post479224"></a><a name="last"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> livid (Stranger) 12-26-03 20:46 No 479224 </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> read this </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> this may be off topic. my posts get rated as redundant and misinforming but I have never asked a single question yet. That's cause everything a bee needs to know is here. If ya can't find it here, there is also research and development. swim has wasted lots of precursers back in the day. </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> </body> </html>

Use NH3 or stay w/RP? , Hive Stimulants


		etherbase 12-23-03 18:49				<a href="https://www.the-hive.ws/forum/showflat.pl?Number=478757&page=47&view=&sort=5&Search=&vc=&new=&start=0&xrated=y&&URLForums=" title="Click here to show this downrated post">Use NH3 or stay w/RP?</a> <br> <i title="This post has been downrated by the moderators">(Rated as: UTFSE!)</i> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478773"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> geezmeister<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Of Counsel</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-23-03 20:49</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [478773]">No 478773</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">meth, well... is meth</b><br> <i title="This post has been up-rated by the moderators">(Rated as: good read)</i> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> With due deference to and an aside from the P2P choir who sing the praises of racemic meth, meth is meth. It doesn't matter how you make the meth molecule--- meth is meth. If its overreduced, you have something other than meth mixed in, and if it is not completely reduced, you have something other than meth mixed in. <br><br>The birch done with lithium produces meth, if done properly. So does the rP/I2 reaction, done properly, and the hypo and phos acid synths done properly. The issue is not which synth makes better meth. The question is which synth is the easiest for you to master. Once mastered, they all make the same product. <br> <span title="The signature"><hr>mostly harmless</span> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478783"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> awayman<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Newbee</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-23-03 22:42</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [478783]">No 478783</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">P2P</b> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> Swim hasn't had to many dealings with this group of fellow foil folders, seems the stuff just hasn't been available in this area (Westerners tipped somebody off) any way, surely they agree that meth is to meth is to a meth molecule. Or do they claim it's cleaner in a sense due the sythesis used and precursors involved? Just wondering. <br> <span title="The signature"><hr>awayman "Ho Ho Hell!"</span> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478811"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> spectralshift<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Hive Bee</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-24-03 03:18</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [478811]">No 478811</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">For me, it's just confusion as to whether...</b> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> For me, it's just confusion as to whether which synths produce which isomer(s), it's not that I can't find the info, it's right here at the hive or rhodium's, i just can't be fugged.<br>I know HI reductions produce D- from L-E and D-PS.<br><br>The one which produces all D- is the most potent technically speaking.<br>Any preference topwards a mixture of L- and D- is subjective, but they are probably right in this preference as these people know what is what in all likelyhood.<br><br>Do L- and D- have a different duration?<br>For me if highness and potency was the goal, then I wouldn't alter the D- quantity for my ideal high, but I might add L- isomer on top of the quantity to see how it effects the overall... </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478814"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> xtaldoc<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Stranger</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-24-03 04:30</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [478814]">No 478814</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">Swix does not feel confused about this one...</b> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> -And that's rare cuz Swix's general level of confusion can bee rather high... Anyhow, with respect to the difference between the d & l isomers of meth: Suppossedly the l isomer is approximately 1/20th as potent as the dextrorotatory one. However, this is a rather simplistic explanation, since its effects are also qualitatively different. There is a more pronounced cardiac effect, for instance. What Swix would really like to add here is a possibly interesting personal observation: Some time ago, Swix was allegedly setting up a large operation. The goal was to produce large amounts of P2P and methylamine and run it all off under one roof. This scale of operation required much more funds that Swix had immediate access to and so a large amount of L-Ephedrine was first reduced (cheaper & easier) in order to fund the whole thing. All went well and the product made it to the marketplace where it was recieved with much love. Phase 2 was then undertaken and dl meth was produced in large quantity. BUT there was a huge problem. Swix's customers (all of them) complained loudly that they vastly preferred the ephedrine dope over the new stuff and that the high was 'askew' on the dl product. At first, Swix was quite butt-hurt. What is really wierd is that in a short while these same customers had a change of heart. Swix did lots of thinking about this and reached the following conclusions: Since these folks were all previously using the d isomer, they had a selective tolerance for it; and little or none for the l isomer. When they suddenly began using the mixed isomer, this caused an unbalanced effect due to the apparent augmentation of the l isomer's effects. Once they got used to the mixed isomer, they found themselves in friendly skies. Most of these folks later reported that they somewhat preferred the mixed isomer, in the end, despite the fact that it is overall less potent than d meth. They gave two interesting reasons: The first one was that they seemed to grade the high as more 'happy' or 'uplifting', as compared to the d isomer seeming rather 'overdriven' by comparrison. The second reason given had to do with tolerance. They (mostly) felt that tolerance rose more gradually with the mixed isomer and seemed to sort of level off. This was also associated with less 'amphetamine psychoses' effects after long term use, than they had experienced with the d isomer. Swix, therefore, actually feels that there may bee an unreported (as far as he knows) beneficial effect that can bee attributed to the presence of l isomer in the mix. If anybees have had similar experiences or observations, it would bee interesting to hear them. </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478837"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> callen<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Hive Bee</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-24-03 08:01</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [478837]">No 478837</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">dl-Meth is the cat's meow...</b> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> Reason being...d-meth is psychological, i.e; mainly affecting the mind...and No hard on. l-meth is more physically oriented. You can play your woman like a fine Fender Strat or Gibson Les Paul.The physical sensations are overwhelming. 5-hour sex marathons are the norm...your dick stays rock hard the whole time whereas with just d-meth you have a half-rigid, limp dick that is semi-hard at ejaculation. Doesn't impress the woman much. P-2-P meth is the way to go.This...from one who cooked p-2-p/methamine in a pressure cooker and then, reduced with HCL and Aluminum foil, and based, then extracted with 'Starting Fluid"...way back in the 70's and early 80's. Before the Spanish boys got ahold of the R/P/I synth. Following the Ephedrine to P-2-P Rxn yields P-2-P and methamine sulfate...which can then be used to produce (dl-desoxyamphetamine) 0r METH... i.e., Ha, Ha,...as in the old Wick's Inhalers.Try it... your ol'Lady, and you will LOVE again.Look on Rhodium's site for infro. By the way...have you seen that darn cat? <br> <span title="The signature"><hr>callen + A.L.F.</span> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478875"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> morpheus<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Hive Addict</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-24-03 10:55</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [478875]">No 478875</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">Which one?</b> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> Considering the hassle and time involved in getting clean<br>RP or HI(unless you have an unlimited supply of that too).<br>Swim would bee out buying the gas mask and wooden spoon now.<br>Homeland security has us on an orange alert now and a good mask shouldn't bee too hard to find.Meanwhile swims on his<br>own orange alert.Damn this is the first time swims seen it. </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post478961"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> awayman<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Newbee</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-25-03 01:41</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [478961]">No 478961</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">Control the Enviroment.....</b> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> From swims experience with the spoon and mask and also when he made the switch to the hypo way of doing things, certain temps, length of reactions, feed stock purity, and alot of different variables come into play. Swim dreamed that he once long ago right after the hypo switch that if he kept the hypo/I2/psuedo right below the temp of the second reaction (like 76�c) this would change the outcome, so he did, he took extra care of the mixture slowly heating and not letting it go off for 2 hours then just bumping the heat up to start it to boiling itself, then going black, then clearing up, then cool, base, extract, and it was exceptional. Girlfriend had a big smile. (Open vessle days) Ammonia days, EXTRA EXTRA care had to be taken, purity of ammonia was a huge issue, but when the purity was up so was the girlfriend. Now a condenser is in play, with a condom attached (not for sex) and the results are half and half, seems the 15g to 25g size batches with 6 to 8 hour refluxes produce less of an effect than 8g to 10g with 2 to 4 hour refluxes. 8 to 10 being more potent. Swim tries to maintain the same type of enviroment conditions. Always ultra clean. Same quality in chemicals each time. This makes it easier to find out what you fucked up in your procedure. So what is happening that is causing the L and D changes here? <br> <span title="The signature"><hr>awayman "foiled again"</span> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post479009"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> SHORTY<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Hive Addict</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-25-03 10:12</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [479009]">No 479009</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">Very good observation</b> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> I have been observing very similar results to the ones you describe. However, up until i read your post, i have just assumed it was all in my head or due to tolerance levels. This is because i have been told over and over again that meth is meth. I totally agree with that statement. However, there are 2 types of meth, d and l. But again i have been told over and over that d meth eannot become l meth and that when using pseudo with the hypo synth you will get d meth and no l. <br>I have no chemistry education other than what i have learned here and elsewhere on the net so i tend to listen to what the more experienced bees say. <br><br>Nevertheless, i have had 2 hour hypo synths that produced some i the best i have ever had and had some 12-24 hour refluxes produce some of the weakest i have ever had. The opposite has also happened. All batches were between the 6g to 25g size. I never even thought about linking the size of the rxns as you did.<br><br>I wish i would have kept a record of all my rxns. I know i would have enough data to find the answer by now. <br><br>Anyways, thanks for sharing your observations and be sure to report any additional info on the subject as there is hardly any info on hypo experiences. <br> <span title="The signature"><hr>It wasn't Me!</span> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post479181"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> etherbase<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Stranger</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-26-03 16:55</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [479181]">No 479181</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">Reply to all.</b> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> Thanks for the responses. Swim feels that he'll stick with the RP/I2 route. Swim also used the fucking search engine extensively, hence the reason for confusion due to so many opionions. </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> <td align="left" valign="top" class="text_bg"> <img src="../forum/images/left_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td colspan="7"><a name="Post479224"></a><a name="last"></a></a> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"><img src="../forum/images/right_top.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td valign="top" align="center" rowspan="2"> livid<br> <i>(<span title="The user's title at the time of posting">Stranger</span>)</i><br> <span title="Posting date">12-26-03 20:46</span><br> <span title="Link to this post by using the markup [479224]">No 479224</span><br> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td rowspan="2" width="1" class="vert_ruler"> <img src="../forum/images/hr.gif" border="0" width="1" height="1"> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="left" valign="top"> <b title="The subject of this post">read this</b> </td> <td class="text_bg" align="right" valign="top"> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td colspan="2" valign="top" align="left"> <br> this may be off topic. my posts get rated as redundant and misinforming but I have never asked a single question yet. That's cause everything a bee needs to know is here. If ya can't find it here, there is also research and development. swim has wasted lots of precursers back in the day. </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr class="text_bg"> <td align="left" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/left_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> <td valign="middle" align="center" colspan="7"> </td> <td align="right" valign="bottom"><img src="../forum/images/right_bottom.gif" border="0" height="12" width="9"></td> </tr> <tr class="page_bg"> <td colspan="9"> </td> </tr> </body> </html>