02-20-04 21:08
No 490030
bad dreams of how much lye to add to r/i/e a/b extractions,started with 8r/15i/12e,matchbook and tincure,some guideance please
rxthis36
(Stranger)
02-20-04 21:24
No 490037
Hold back about 1/10 of rxn fluid. Mix up a lye solution (1gm lye/1oz dh2o or so). Then add lye solution teaspoon at a time until it doesn't milk up solution anymore, add remaining 1/10 rxn and then add fuel.
sunfair
(Stranger)
02-20-04 21:30
No 490039
thanks for the input,had dreams of adding way more,thanks again.
rxthis36
(Hive Addict)
02-20-04 22:30
No 490043
Adding too much lye will not do any harm. However, it is wasteful.
It wasn't Me!
(Hive Addict)
02-20-04 23:23
No 490051
1 ounce=29.5 milliliters
Ibee thinks sunfair may have meant to type ml instead of ounce.
If not, Ibee would have to go with shorty's reply.
If Ibee is correct, 1gram lye to every 1ml dh2o would give a 100% solution....
Drop that back to a 50% solution by mixing 1gram lye for every 2ml dh2o used.
The amount to make depends on how much honeywater is being based.
Always add the premeasured lye to premeasured dh2o and swirl carefully!
After the lye solution is cooled and clear, add splashwise to honeywater with swirling until pH 13+ while NP is present. Using pipette or eyedropper, draw off a few drops from bottom layer to pH test using teststrips capable of reading pH14 or 15!
a little less conversation, a little more reaction
(goat)
02-21-04 04:42
No 490094
perhaps it makes sense to bring the ph up gradually, allowing time for migration beefore the release of some of the nasty stuff that seems to get released at the high end of ph.
true, 14 won't hurt it, but if you get a blob of soap-like emulsion, it may impede the flow of free base molecules into the np.
which makes me curious about bottom layer np
wouldn't gravity work in your favor if the np was below?
btw, biz has dreamt of taking a pull of np at 9 or 10, and getting some virgin results. yeah, most of the goods won't bee in that pull, but almost none of the crap will bee either.
i thought this was how anybee managed to stay awake long enough to finnish and clean up an lwr, poky-ass rxn.
btw, wareami,
should bees fear that sticking a tube thru an upper solution of god only knows what and np, could give bad readings on the ph of the lower layer?
swimmy thought so, when forced to talk to himself about all the things that could go wrong.
but it does seem, to swim, that more of the funky crap comes over at the high end of the a/b ph
swimmy's titrated pulls were polymer free at the low end of the free basing ph demands.
same with titrating hCl, for that matter. evap a few drops of that barely acidic enough bottom layer, just for fun.
(Hive Addict)
02-21-04 09:37
No 490121
Then you wouldn't have to worry about bringing up the ph gradually. I steam distill mine so maybe its different for those who don't. I once had to do an a/b without steam distilling due to a broken condenser. That was a total disaster and hope that i never have to do that again.
Wareami,
You got me thinking about concentration and now i am confused. If you add 1g of lye to 1ml of water then wouldn't this be a 50% solution of lye? Since you have 1 of each which brings the total to 2 of which only 1 is lye therefore making it 50% of the total solution?
Now im even more confused.
It wasn't Me!
(Hive Addict)
02-21-04 16:24
No 490159
Shorty: Don't be confused! I stand corrected! You are correct!
I was......wr....r......Wracking my brain over that one and drew a mental block
Thanks for clarifying the solution
I did say correct me if I'm wr....r......Wracking my brain didn't I?
So it is! 1 to 1 ratio for 50% solution!
Ibee recommends it when gaaked for brute force basing!
And you are also correct about the steam distilling as well as the need to exclude the gaaks pre-rxn. Dwarfer and Ibee were talking about the best ways Ibee can start S-distilling. Those pressure cookers look impressive. But Dwarfer and Biotechdewd are master dick-arounds! Ibee wants to get his feet wet with a simple distilling device to start with.
Thanx man!
Okay first let me say that we all know the playing field changes when the Pharmers introduce new innovations.
It is true that OII gaak will hinder the efforts to extract the amine in the final work-up.
Now bees are faced with a decision as to the best way to proceed as it usually isn't known whether they are gaaked or not until the basified solution hits the honeywater(post rxn fluid).
The formation of thick emulsion is not a good sign!
Ibee hasn't seen an overwhelming emulsion in over a year! That would bee because he removes the gaaks pre-rxn! There have been a few experiments carried out in the hopes of dealing with OII Gaak post rxn, and they all turned out to be a bitch.
This is what we know:
•Strong base activates it. pH12.5+ starts activation
•Waiting for the encapsulation effects to subside is one way to deal with it most effectively. Sometimes up to 3 days.
•To get ALL the amine mobile, activation of the gaak cannot be avoided!
•Slow basing releasing small amounts of amine before the gaak gets activated.
Okay this brings us to the decision:
•Do we slow base for a little, knowing we have our work cut out for us in getting the rest?
•Or do we use brute force basing to get all we can before or AS the activation is occuring!
It's kinda like running toward the automatic garage door to get outside after ya hit the dooropener/closer button on the wall from inside to get out before the door slams shut on yer ass! If ya don't make it, ya don't make it.
Ibee finds this brute force basing works best because it gives uncontaminated gear in higher yields before the gaak claims it and rides with.
Once the gaak is activated, to extract the gear without deactivating the gaak, or waiting for it to deactivate, results in gooey gear that won't xtallize fully!
Ibee would estimate he gets ~30% with the brute force basing.
Biz: How much can Swimmy get with slow basing n the first pull?
perhaps it makes sense to bring the ph up gradually, allowing time for migration beefore the release of some of the nasty stuff that seems to get released at the high end of ph.
true, 14 won't hurt it, but if you get a blob of soap-like emulsion, it may impede the flow of free base molecules into the np.
This may seem like a good Idea biz but when you consider what comes over first(the emulsion) in slower basing techniques, Ibee finds that sometimes it's better to base the hell out of it with a concentrated solution and act quick on getting that first pull. Now this assumes that gaaks are present!
If they are, a certain percentage will get locked up now matter how the work-up is carried out.
which makes me curious about bottom layer np
wouldn't gravity work in your favor if the np was below?
Not in all cases. When considering that some of the contaminants form the heavier emulsion by weight. The trash will fall down into the NP because of that gravity. This is what makes washing Bottom feeders NP's a necessity! Ask Geez!
Biz....this is why Ibee stresses the importants to remove all gaaks from the picture before rxn, because contaminated work-ups are a bitch even for the seasoned chef and expert reclamation specialists alike.
This is also why more time gets spent on refining extraction methods in Ibees circle than gets spent on rxns.
btw, biz has dreamt of taking a pull of np at 9 or 10, and getting some virgin results. yeah, most of the goods won't bee in that pull, but almost none of the crap will bee either.
i thought this was how anybee managed to stay awake long enough to finnish and clean up an lwr, poky-ass rxn.
Again....if a concentrated lye solution is used, one can get a larger pull on that first one before the majority of gaak has a chance to form. That has been Ibees experience with working with gaaked work-ups! If the gaaks aren't present and cause for concern in the end, the amounts and order of lye addition are no concern as long as the amine gets released when basing
btw, wareami,
should bees fear that sticking a tube thru an upper solution of god only knows what and np, could give bad readings on the ph of the lower layer?
Not really if the emulsion is scooted out of the way when dipping. If that middle emulsion layer is that thick the solution should be filtered before proceeding! Besides, if the solution is gaaked, the emulsion will be in the polar layer and the pH reading won't flucuate by much.
Any NP on the side of the pipette won't hurt because it won't register on the strip! But one could always wipe sides off with a tissue or papertowel before unloading contents onto the strip.
Just dip pipette down to the very bottom to take the few drop testsample, pullout and wipe, then squirt.
swimmy thought so, when forced to talk to himself about all the things that could go wrong.
but it does seem, to swim, that more of the funky crap comes over at the high end of the a/b ph
This is correct with certain gaaks....remove them first before rxn and there is no problem!
If bees need a refresher from Ibee on how to gaurantee removal of OII Gaak then say the word and it will be posted again! Ibee's almost ready to throw down a full write-up from extraction of Everything down to the LWR rxn and finally the getting down to Biz part!
In the meantime, if those gaaks are being dealt with post-rxn, Ibee suggests not prolonging the inevitable. Do this by getting in there and getting what you can on the first pull, brute force basing style, then let the gaaks settle out or experiment getting the rest while you have the added energy from the first lot pulled!
swimmy's titrated pulls were polymer free at the low end of the free basing ph demands.
This opens UP a whole new nest of worms, And after all this, everybody wishes I'd just shut UP....right Os???
Hope this helps Biz and Bees!
a little less conversation, a little more reaction
(Hive Addict)
02-21-04 23:02
No 490211
I think you will be quite impressed with the results as well as how easy it actually is. I use a 1 liter electric kettle for a steam generator (although a flask would work just fine). I have a 2 hole stopper which has a long piece of glass tubing in one hole and a short piece in the other. The long one goes all the way to the bottom of my boiling flask and has a piece of plastic tubing on the end about 6 inches long which goes to a hole drilled in the kettle lid. The short piece is just long enough to protrude into out of the stopper about 1/2 inch and is connected to a plastic tubing which goes to another one hole stopper that fits into my condenser.
It only takes about 1-2 minutes per gram to distill once everything is up and running.
It wasn't Me!
(Stranger)
02-22-04 04:30
No 490308
pH to 13 with lye, use 20% NaOH solution. Then saturate with NaCl to extract.UTFSE
(Hive Addict)
02-22-04 04:47
No 490316
There was a time when this smooth and emulsion killing combo of slow basing (usually dropwise with a separatory or addition funnel) and hot bubblin naphtha with a dash of hydrogen peroxide was quite en vogue.
Despite it's appearance of having fallen out of fashion it's still a solid, reliable basing technique that also has a strong reputation as being a good yeild increaser.
main and core post Post 59240 (Worlock: "Ker Plunking for quality and quantity", Stimulants)
photo illustration of theoretical ker plunk setup Post 377287 (ChemoSabe: "Das Ist Der Kerplunker", Stimulants)
erections lasting more than four hours, although rare, require immediate medical help
(goat)
02-22-04 08:57
No 490341
wouldn't the set-up, as shown in your old post, preclude the possibility of a np washing of the post rxn juices?
of all the washes, the post rxn np wash of the aqueous acidic slop, has the most and biggest tits ever.
it should remain in fashion for a long time
(Hive Addict)
02-22-04 21:04
No 490423
Unless of course you made the assumption that this is also the theoretical reaction setup, which it isn't. And even if it were I can't conceive how it might stop any attempts made at giving the rxn results a good non polar washing.
How could this Ker Plunking setup possibly have the capacity to stop one from performing an NP washing prior to the commencement of the sacred ker plunking ritual?
Or is it that damn ker plunkers union teaming up again with the Post RXN Washers union and striking because one of them will soon be losing their previously guaranteed health benefits?
Since you are my rightful father by birth there are moments when what you say is so easily comprehended that I may as well have said it myself. But this is the flip side of one of those moments.
I'd ask daddy Chuck a question concerning unions and job titles in the construction industry here but I know too well that it's way off topic.
erections lasting more than four hours, although rare, require immediate medical help
(goat)
02-23-04 05:07
No 490528
i checked the link and pic of the alleged set-up, didn't notice the naph; thought it was post rxn straight from the the rxn with some water.
please remain my illegitimate son; i'll try to do better.