03-16-04 19:29
No 495606
It's recently been a subject worth discussing, due to the heat that's usually on people that buy Sudafed.. buying bottle(s) of cough syrup would seem a lot more legit...
Is it much harder to extract with cough syrup? Cause it seems like it would be even cheaper to do so with syrup, if you calculate the potential yields and consider that a bottle of tussin-x costs only 2-3 dollars...?
Opinions/comments welcome..
(Stranger)
03-16-04 20:46
No 495617
Probably less polymer shit in syrup too?
(Stranger)
03-16-04 21:40
No 495633
of course.. different brands and such will have different amounts of PE per X amount of ml. usually 15-30mg/[X amount of ml].
About the price.. If your going to your local neighborhood drugstore place its gonna cost you..
Two words for yall. Dollar Store. find a good big dollar store and they are almost sure to have some cough syrup. Generally the only actives will be Pseudo.HCL/DXM Hbr/Guafenisin. However if you keep your eyes on the prize.. you can find cough syrups with 2/3 the actives... RARELY you can find simply Pseudo as the active ingredient..
If your lucky.
But in any event i would ASSUME there to be a lack of molestorizing polymers and binders and shit. so yeah. someone work a good extraction technique. if i have a chance ill look into it.
But for the time being, my eyes are involuntarily closing. Generally i need some sleep. so have fun yall.
if anyone has info in regards to irregular sleeping habits PM me
(Hive Addict)
03-17-04 05:19
No 495709
Swim would forget about syrup.Besides the other actives
such as guy(fenesin),dxm,etc.,a check of a bottle shows
the inactives:alcohol,blue 1,carboxymethylcellulose sodium,
citric acid,corn syrup,polyethylene oxide,polyoxyl 40 stearate,propylene glycol,red 40,saccharin sodium,sodium benzoate and sodium citrate.After getting the actives out
you still have to deal with inactives.
Also cough syrups come in 4 oz. bottles(118ml)
Say each 5 ml.'s contain 30mg pseudo.
That means after ridding the unwanted you will bee
left with a little over 600mg pseudo hcl.
Whereas 100 thirty mg.red hots gives you 3,000mg
(Hive Bee)
03-17-04 14:08
No 495795
morpheus, even though you are probably correct, the comparison of quantities of pseudo from syrup or pills is meaningless without a price...also, no one has written a post detailing a procedure for cough syrup(i'm pretty sure...) so those of us with no chem knowledge have to take it for granted that syrups are no good...
if there is pseudo in it and no super gaks and the price is compareable to pseudo from pills, why the heck not i say....
i'll check cough syrup prices today...
can a bee who knows what they are doing can have a look at the ingredients listed above in the cough syrup and humor us nitwits who will go against authoratitive advice with a few suggestions on how to proceed?
i'm gunna cop it for this...
the horror
(Stranger)
03-17-04 16:16
No 495815
If someone puts down a process to get out the psudoephedrine, I would be more than happy to try it out, and let you all know how it goes.
They say you have the right to remain silent, but you have no rights.
(Hive Addict)
03-17-04 16:24
No 495816
Post 479183 (SHORTY: "Syrups are a waist of time and money", Stimulants)
Post 436611 (SHORTY: "I have done it", Stimulants)
Post 436511 (evoh_1: "Epherdrine from syrup", Stimulants)
It wasn't Me!
(Stranger)
03-18-04 17:28
No 496033
It's not even a question as to what is cheaper and produces more pseudo... THE COUGH SYRUP.. this is from just looking on the internet from mail order pharmacies for their cold medications- and this is not even going from WALMART or similar outlet prices... =)
My research shows me (from internet prices) that a box of 30mg X 48 is roughly 5-6$ and will theoretically at best yield 1440mg
My research shows me (from internet prices) that a bottle of 12oz syrup (355ml 30mg/5ml pseudo) is roughly 5-6$ also, but will theoretically at best yield 2130mg
THAT's about 30% more~!!!
I think we know what needs to be done now people.. a decent writeup explaining extraction techniques...
And.. getting a little bit ahead of myself, going from SHORTY's extraction technique he outlined: what other suitable solvents can be substituted by toluene? Toluene is pretty hard to get a hold of in this area, as well as most others I have lived in.
Also, what is the general impression of the quality of the gathered pseudo for SHORTY's method? and yield?
There definitely needs to be a more detailed
(Stranger)
03-18-04 17:43
No 496037
My research shows me (from internet prices) that a box of 30mg X 48 is roughly 5-6$...
Well then, SWIK will consider himself lucky that he can buy *3* boxes of 30mg X *96* redhots for under $6 (with a '95 expiration date to boot)... Time to stock up I suppose!
--KidClean.
On the hill the stuff was laced with kerosene
But yours was kitchen clean
(Stranger)
03-18-04 18:23
No 496043
That's just unheard of. 3 boxes of 96ct 30mg for under 6$? That's just wrong. I can buy a box of 96ct 30mg redhots/generic for about 10-11$.. at Wal-fart, CVS, or any drug store or grocery store.
So, anyway- i'm just going from Internet prices.. prices anyone can buy from- and I know these prices go down in certain grocery store chains or Wal-fart.
This is the *NEW 'way', and it needs more help! cum on' ppl!
(Hive Addict)
03-18-04 18:37
No 496046
If the syrup was a practical source of pseudo then don't you think that beez like GeezmeisterPost 436605 (geezmeister: "not a good source", Stimulants) and Wareami Post 307686 (wareami: "LiquidDreams? Swimmingpools!", Stimulants) would have noticed this by now?
I don't know where you got your prices but my internet search for prices painted a much different picture than yours as do the prices at the pharmicies where i live.
It wasn't Me!
(Hive Addict)
03-18-04 20:28
No 496061
I have to agree with Shorty on this one. Cough syrup simply is NOT cost effective. Don't waste your time or money. Bees have already taken this path, so you don't have to.
Swim remembers a couple yrs back when Swig was dreaming up his experiments with the stuff. It motivated Swim to check it out for himself as well.
When Swig first brought up the discussion, he wanted to keep it hush because he was fearful of another source going down the drain. After further examination it was concluded that the syrup was shitty yielding and wasn't worth the effort or money.
Even with the eudragit "methacrylate" supergakk, pills are still very much worth pursuing, still viable as a source and remain cost-effective to this day.
Supreme White Powder
(Stranger)
03-19-04 00:40
No 496099
I'm sorry it's not cost effective for you or where you live. It certainly is for me, without a doubt. Let's have no more discussion on how cost effective it is for anyone.
Let's talk about a decent method of extraction, and what other solvents may be used in place of toluene for SHORTY's method..
(Stranger)
03-19-04 01:17
No 496103
Ive done a few DXM extraction, so that is the basis im going on.
First Id wash the syrup with a non polar, repeat as nesicary,
Add another layer of non polar (id use xylene)
add a 20% NaOH solution till PH is at least 12. Decant Xylene layer and save. do this 2 more times, combine all xylene layers. Wash with 20% NaOH solution, then with warm water, then with cold. Add these with original watery solution and the 3 NP washes in a glass bowl. Set aside for later use.
Back to the np layer with the pseudo in it. Add diluted HCL till the ph goes between 6 and 7. drain water layer and save. Do this 2 more times and combine all. Add np layer into the bucket with the rest of washes/original solution. Take the new watery layer, let evap, acetone flash, and recrystalize.
You should get pretty clean meth with that.
Also you can take that bucket-o-stuff, add NaOH till its pH is abouve 12, and start the whole process over again on that batch. you should recover some more pseudo.
(Hive Addict)
03-19-04 05:47
No 496129
You would probably need to dilute the syrup with some dh20 after washing with the np.
I would also suggest gassing rather than titrating.
It wasn't Me!
(Stranger)
03-19-04 09:32
No 496163
Instead of using a NaOH solution, swim could use equal amounts of ammonia to syrup. Once the NP is added that you plan on extracting, close the vessal and shake the living bajesus out of it. When your arms are about to fall off, get a buddy to do it some more. If you are really ballsy, put all of the stuff in a small paint can and go to one of your local paint supply store and ask them to put it into one of those paint shakers. You are ganna have emultions from hell, but they should calm down.
Swin doesnt know how to gas or have room for a gassing setup, he is going to have to stick to titration.
(Hive Bee)
03-19-04 09:47
No 496164
"it's not cost effective for you or where you live"
i have to agree with Spammer on this sentence.
swig can buy 20 pills (teo.=1.2g PFed) for 1.43€ which is now out of stock everywhere...
never used syrrup but after research swig found that 100ml (teo.=0.6g) costs 1.65€
well no doubt that pills are worth over the liquid but in this out of stock case im interested in knowing opinions i do some reading on post about this extraction coz i really want to excluded the "not worthy because of the money costs" factor.
spammer u can allways PM me if happens u trying this extraction from liquid.
EDIT: i would like to know more about this:
"...still cheaper than getting 100% yeild from the syrup."
shorty
man, shorty i mean, based on your opinion, experienced opinion would be better but seems u dont have it coz its not worth extracting there, is this possible...the 100%(75% consering the level of technique and all)??
calculations based on my enviroment:
1.2g=1.43€ (out of stock the cheaper pills cost 4.11€ for 0.6g)
0.6g=1.65€ (liquid)
so if swim could get a 75%
0.6*75% =0.45g for 1.65€
in a time of no pills its worth to buy if not compare it:
0.6g for 4.11€ on a 100% extraction on pills i never tried before
0.45g for 1.65€ on 75% extraction on liquid which btw i never tried before
(Hive Bee)
03-19-04 12:33
No 496179
Yo beez I just wanna say, try it. Try Ma Hung extractions also. Try cold reactions, try everything.
It sad to see some bee discourage "effort", and "trying things".
Most of these things have been attempted and failed, but since nobody has posted success, the attempts at succesess have likely been half-ass.
Can anyone actually say they have expried all avenues of reseacrch in this area?
Never stop fighting
Drop Bush! Not Bombs.
(Hive Addict)
03-19-04 16:43
No 496230
I sometimes get carried away and assume that all bees live in Amerika. I suppose for the few states that just had their pills removed from the shelves and are limited to the total amount of grams purchased per month at the pharmacy, this source will now come into play.
Then again, obviously there are bees from other countries that this may help in the long run. For this my apologies.
Go for the syrup with pseudo and trip exclusively, it is out there.
Warm NP's do a better job at pulling adulterants. When Swim was doing his experiments he added the syrup to Xylene and warmed it all up together in beaker. Did this 3x and decanted the gakk ridden Xylene.
You can dilute the syrup 50/50 with distilled water. Swim added Xylene and poured in NaOH a teaspoon at a time over a 20 minute period until ph hit 13.
Stir it really good, shaking produces emulsions.
Pretty much like ITP already said with the exception of using warm NP's to do the syrup washing.
Swim got back like a half g of pseudo - .6 per bottle.
If that works for you, go for it. More Powder to ya!
People have mentioned NaOH and ammonia as bases, Maybee Na carbonate like in the tetra trap will work as well with heat?
Shorty mentioned gassing, with further "theoretical" experience since that time with other extractions, can almost guarantee that is the path one should now take. Yields may improve?
Not discouraging anybee from further pioneering a once explored route. If that is all you have access to and money is no object, then go for it!
Perfect it and help the have nots...
More thoughts: Steam distillation? PP/SS pipebomb extraction?
US bees, if $3-4 for a half gram is acceptable, you are more die-hard then Swim.
Refuse/Resist
(Hive Addict)
03-19-04 19:01
No 496249
I now see why you would want to use the syrup. I have never had a shortage of the pills so I wasn't taking that into consideration. I suppose if i couldn't get pills then i would bee buying the syrup as well.
I also agree with SD on the base to be used as when i did it i used naoh and the water layer turned almost black!
If i were going to do it again i would use sodium carbonate and maybee a pinch of tri sodium phosphate since they work great on the pills they should do the same on the syrup. I would also dilute the syrup with 2 or more times the amount of syrup with dh20. A would think that by thinning it out it would be easier to break the pseudo out of the syrup. Besides, no matter how much you dilute it it will not require more base anyway.
It wasn't Me!
(Stranger)
03-20-04 18:20
No 496394
Again.. back from hiatus (SP? anyways..)
This was my main point for replying to the post initially.
not all bees are US bees. not all bees have access to workable pills or decent amounts of pills, etc..
also.. as for the cost (i know someone asked for no more talk.. but still) hit the fucking dollar stores. ive seen 8oz bottles with nothing but psuedo or psuedo and dxm. ive seen 12oz bottles in the ghetto stores. either way.. its not so 'unthinkable'. especially for $1.
also.. bees in need of quantities of psuedo that might pursue an interest in the syrups should look for surplus sales or wholesale prices..
a nice (and as close to quantative) extraction method would be peachy keen.
but i dunno. only pulled pseudo for methcat once or twice.. done a few dxm extractions. im no methcook. just an interested observer with beliefs that people should (at least generally) have free access to substances of choice.
w0nk w0nk.
(Stranger)
03-20-04 20:12
No 496410
I could have sworn I asked a question similar to that in a different post, but now I cant seem to find it.
What would happen if you let DXM HCLto through the reaction that makes meth? Maybe you could extract it afterwards, hopefully it would still be DXM.
(Chief Bee)
03-21-04 08:10
No 496461
Definitely not, at the very least the DXM would be demethylated to (+)-3-hydroxy-N-methyl-morphinane (DXM is the same but 3-methoxy).
The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders
03-21-04 08:52
(Rated as: misinforming)
(Stranger)
03-21-04 20:06
No 496549
in response to rhodiums comment..
'Definitely not, at the very least the DXM would be demethylated to (+)-3-hydroxy-N-methyl-morphinane (DXM is the same but 3-methoxy)'
if this were to happen.. i have a few questions:
first.. Would this substance be of any recreational use?
second.. would it impede the meth cook process?
third.. if the dxm was to carry all the way thru (and become demythlated or whatever) into the final product.. how would it affect the final product? could it be seperated from the meth?
whats the deal? =]
w00p, w0nk, tweep