05-11-04 13:39
No 506405
The following is a SWIW's best procedure yet on generic 120's and is a collaboration of other procedures. It is in no way, (for you nit-pickers), claimed to be new, or all encompassing. This has been run on sets of 5 boxes of 20ct and yields around 8.25-9.15 grams pseudo hcl salt.
This is an edited post.
Abstract of procedure:
a) Extract uncrushed pills with 99% ISO
b) Reduce ISO volume
c) Base solution, and then disarm GACK
d) Collect freebase in naphtha
e) Dry naphtha
f) Drive off ISO & filter off GACK
g) Precipitate pseudo salt rinse, dry
h) Dissolve pseudo and suction filter
i) Re-Crystallize pseudo from H2O in naphtha/acetone in microwave
j) Suction filter and rinse Pseudo with acetone
Standard Procedure:
a) Extraction:
1. Place pills in a beaker or jar uncrusded.
2. To the pills, add approximately 6 oz 99% ISO for every 100 pills (120mg ea.).
3. Allow pills to soak about 15 minutes, swirling occasionally.
4. Now heat the pills and ISO in the microwave using 30-second bursts. Do not heat to a steady boil. Stir pills intermittently when heating.
5. Decant into filter funnel with a cotton topped Charmin plug.
6. Next, apply reduced pressure and collect ISO. Do not let the filter run completely dry.
7. With the second addition of ISO to the pill mass in the jar, no soak time is required. Add 6 oz more ISO, as above only this time after heating, pour the pill mass into the filter with the ISO and suction filter. Again, do not let the pill mass and filter completely dry.
8. On the third addition of ISO, pour 3 oz ISO into the jar. Swirl around to wash residual pill mass from the sides of the jar. Heat the ISO to a boil then pour in filter funnel. This time let the vacuum pull the pill mass dry.
9. Finally, heat another 3 oz of ISO to a boil and pour over the pill mass with the vacuum still applied.
10. Combine the filtered portions and re-filter all through a clean cotton topped Charmin plug.
b) ISO Volume Reduction:
* Please see Notes and Comments first.
1. Place the ISO from above in a shallow dish. (Corelle by Corning has proven to be forgiving of extreme temperature changes.)
2. Heat the solution with rotation in the microwave with venting. Every so often, the microwave is stopped, and the door opened. (Hold your breath and step away from the microwave to breath.) Carefully and slowly, a fork is submerged into the hot ISO. This will cause a wild boiling of the ISO. If it appears the ISO will boil over remove the fork. Keep the ISO just at that point between wildly boiling and boiling over. When placing the fork in the ISO no longer causes this reaction, the fork can be drug around in the dish to reinitiate the wild boiling. When the addition of fork agitation yields no more wild boiling the microwave is turned back on.
3. As the volume reduces, the solution takes on a yellow tint. Continue until the volume is around 3 oz unless skinning can be noted. Be cautious of bumping and popping when using a microwave.
c) Base & Disarm:
1. The reduced ISO solution is now transferred to a coffee carafe. Any crystals formed in the corning dish may be scraped and added along with the ISO solution.
2. NaOH is added to form a paste.
3. Add ISO until the solution has a soupy consistency.
4. Next, add about 7 oz naphtha or until ½ inch sits above the ISO solution.
5. Heat in the microwave on high. Every minute or so with gloved hands the carafe is swirled around. The lower ISO solution will turn milky and then appear similar to a lava lamp. Blobs bounce around in the naphtha and eventually appear to curdle, then turn to a powder layer on the bottom. The naphtha layer will turn a milky color. During this process, an excess of NaOH can be seen on the bottom. A condenser of your choice is used. This process was performed with a funnel in the mouth, (condenser), of the carafe successfully.
6. When the lower layer appears to be powder, it is heated for an additional minute then removed from the microwave.
d) Collect freebase in naphtha:
1. The naphtha layer is then decanted into a filter funnel with a Charmin plug and vacuum filtered. Be careful not to pour the water layer.
2. 7 oz naphtha and more NaOH are added and swirled.
3. Then 1 oz H2O is added in small portions. Careful that the solution does not boil over, and swirl in between each addition.
4. Then, return the solution to the microwave and heat until the bottom layer boils for about 30-45 seconds. If the lower layer does not boil quickly then there may not be enough ISO to aid the boiling process. The lower layer may superheat and bump hard breaking the flask and causing a mess. A dash of ISO can be added before the above heating to help prevent this.
5. The naphtha layer is then decanted into a filter funnel with a Charmin plug. Be careful not to pour the water layer.
6. An additional 7 oz portion of naphtha is added to the carafe, as well as more NaOH and the mixture is swirled.
7. With the empty funnel (condenser) in place, the carafe is returned to the microwave and heated until the lower layer boils again for 30-45 seconds.
8. Again, naphtha layer is decanted and suction filtered.
9. Repeat this one more time if desired then set the water layer aside.
e) Dry Naphtha:
1. Combine the naphtha portions in the now clean carafe.
2. Pour about ¾ cup of salt into the carafe and swirl around.
3. Now decant the naphtha into a clean filter funnel with a new Charmin plug. Take care not to pour out salt layer.
4. Clean out carafe and put naphtha back in carafe.
5. Repeat steps 2-4.
f) Drive off ISO & filter off GACK:
1. Place naphtha solution in a clean carafe.
2. Heat to boil in microwave. If it refuses to heat or boil, try adding a bit more ISO or switch to a boiling water bath.
3. When a boil is reached, the carafe is removed from the microwave and poured out into a large baking dish.
4. Use a hairdryer to blow air onto the naphtha solution. The air stream should make a slight depression on the surface of the naphtha and follow a rotational pattern just inside the lip of the dish. First hot air followed by cool. Take care as the naphtha can easily be forced out of the dish. If splashing occurs, set hairdryer to a lower setting or move drier further away. The solution will begin to cloud. Two different crystals may be seen here. Small needle looking pseudo and GACK resembling disintegrating toilet tissue or small clumps of crushed ice.
5. If there exists and abundance of pseudo needles mixed with the GACK then reheat the solution in the carafe and allow to cool in the carafe. The GACK will precipitate out first and may be filtered off then using a fresh Charmin plug, and reduced pressure. Otherwise just filter off the GACK by reduced pressure filtration through a Charmin plug.
6. Repeat these steps 2 times, unless you are sure the GACK is not precipitating out and pseudo is being filtered instead.
g) Precipitate pseudo salt rinse, dry:
1. Transfer the naphtha and freebase crystals (if any) to a clean dry glass bottle. Allow room for the addition of acetone.
2. Pour salt into a glass.
3. To that salt, add hlc 32% solution approximately 12 drops for every1/2 cup of salt. Mix well.
4. To the salt/hcl, add acetone until the level is just above the salt level. Mix well.
5. Decant this solution through a cotton-plugged funnel with more salt into another glass.
6. Add the above filtered solution in with the naphtha solution 6 drops at a time and swirl.
7. When the naphtha solution takes on a pearl essence look add dry acetone in small portions, cap, and shake the bottle.
8. Release pressure and allow pseudo to precipitate a minute.
9. Collect the pseudo by suction filtration in a clean funnel with a cotton plug. Do not pack the cotton to tight or filtration will slow and the acetone will pull moisture from the air. Rinse each collection well with acetone immediately and add the resulting solution to the naphtha mother. Place pseudo filter cake on a dish.
10. Repeat 6-9 until no more pseudo comes out.
11. Dry the pseudo out a bit by spreading out on a dish.
h) Dissolve pseudo and suction filter.
1. Place the pseudo into a clean filter funnel with a cotton topped Charmin plug.
2. The funnel is placed in a vacuum filtration flask and ready for filtering.
3. With suction turned off, add room-temp DH2O approximately 1oz for every 10 grams of pseudo. Mix around a bit then apply suction. When filter appears to be dry, pour in an additional splash, 2-3 ml, DH2O. This is an approximation here, you want just enough water to dissolve the pseudo. Prewetting the filter adds to much water, hence the splash to follow. Save this filter as it may contain some of your pseudo.
i) Re-Crystallize pseudo from H2O in naphtha/acetone in microwave:
1. Pour the filtrate solution into a shallow corning dish. It should form a sparse layer
across the bottom of the dish. If it completely covers the bottom of the dish then a
larger dish is required. Place the lid to the dish in a manner that leaves 4 small
openings at each corner by turning the lid a bit from its intended placement.
2. Cycle the microwave in 15 to 30 second intervals. Remove the dish between each cycle. Remove the lid carefully so as not to drip water back into the dish. At the first sign of skinning pour in fresh naphtha and swirl around until it forms a layer over the pseudo water.
3. Wipe the lid dry and replace the dish in the microwave this time with lid in the intended secure position.
4. Cycle the microwave. With each cycle you should here crackling. These cycles should be 7-12 seconds each. Anymore and it will most likely bump. (no harm done with the lid on)
5. Remove the dish with each cycling.
6. Carefully remove the lid and look in the dish. The lid should be hot and will aid in the H20 removal if placed on the counter inverted. (Inside facing up).
7. Crystals should be seen forming/floating around.
8. Continue the cycling until the crackling has stopped or the crystals are now bubbling like foam rather than forming the flat crystals as before. At this point acetone is splashed in. Just enough to make things sizzle. Replace the lid and cycle again. Naphtha should be present still in the same volume as before. If the addition of acetone appears to boil away the naphtha, then more naphtha should be added.
j) Suction filter and rinse Pseudo with acetone:
1. Cycle one last time then remove from microwave and splash again with acetone. Swirl it around and more crystals should crash out. Now flood the dish with acetone. Swirl around and quickly filter by suction filtration using a single cotton ball placed in the funnel. Rinse with acetone. Rinse well to remove the naphtha. When rinsing with acetone always keep a stead pool of acetone above the filter cake. If the level of acetone drops down and air is drawn through the filter cake followed by additional rinsing, then a reduced yield will result from the condensation of moisture on the cold filter cake. Do not re-rinse a drying filter cake unless it is completely dry and at room temp.
Notes and Comments:
1. A cotton topped Charmin plug is a Charmin plug with a cotton ball on top. The cotton is not packed tight.
2. When filtering the ISO/Pill solution, hot alcohol will boil wildly during filtration. To keep this at a minimum, turn down the suction when the filtered stream begins to bubble rather then flow. Turn the vacuum down until a steady stream can be seen again. Also, removing the filtrate in-between each ISO addition assists in keeping this under control. Always keep collected portions separate as a safety precaution in case of filter failure.
3. When drying out the ISO/Pill filtrate, reducing the volume in a closed distillation setup would be best. Alternately, one could use a steam bath with a fan blowing across the setup. Never heat flammable substances with or around an open coil heat element. When boiling away 15 oz of ISO in 7 minutes you are inviting trouble. If this procedure is performed without adequate venting of the microwave, fumes will accumulate and asphyxiation may occur. Not venting in an apartment allows the smell to travel to your neighbors. Venting outside though a window in broad daylight is not suggested, and if you are on the first floor venting to the roof the smell will probably be noticed by the upstairs neighbors. Neutralizing aerosol sprays do assist in covering the smell, however it increases the possibility of asphyxiation. The above steps are for those insistent on rushing the evaporation process, and have been performed on occasion on the top floor apartment with venting to the roof. An assistant was present outside to alert of outside fume detection. Anyone who has suffered overexposure to ISO fumes will tell you it is an unpleasant experience.
4. ISO solutions reduced with a slower process have been noted to yield slightly higher. Boiling away all the ISO and rinsing with acetone is not suggested, and has been noted to reduce yields.
5. When boiling naphtha in the microwave ISO may need to be added in small portions to get it to heat.
6. If the naphtha collections in the dish cool down to room temperature or cooler and have not precipitated anything then reheating and repeating the cooling is required. If nothing results, test a small portion by drying it out completely. If freebase crystals are then seen, you should reduce the volume of naphtha until crystals precipitate then continue to the next step of adding the acetone/hcl.
7. When precipitating with acetone/hcl and the precipitate appears to be disappearing and a small collection of water appears at the bottom then this must be transferred to the microwave and dried out, CAREFULL of hard BUMPING. Alternately one could do a titration here with varying results but still recover dirty pseudo.
8. Precipitating with the acetone/hcl seems to work best with Iodized salt that has an ati-caking additive of the sulfate variety. However, the smell produced is awful.
9. One may opt to gas out the pseudo here, however that has not been tested. Maybe gassing and then adding dry acetone and filtering would sidestep the water thing.
10. When rinsing the pseudo while filtering keep a pool of acetone above the filter cake. If at anytime, the acetone is sucked away and the filter cake is aloud to pull air through it, do not pour more acetone over it unless the pseudo-cake is completely dry, and at room temperature. Otherwise, the condensation attracted will allow some pseudo to wash away.
11. This procedure currently works on generic 120’s.
Wow it may even have perfect spelling?!
(Hive Bee)
05-11-04 13:53
No 506409
This stuff results in candy that not only reacts and extracts like it should but brings with it suprestion of appetite. Also give this girl room to spread her legs! Can you say longevity? And from a fast semidry hot reaction. Can't imagine a LWR.
(Hive Bee)
05-13-04 02:42
No 506752
Thanks for More and almost as good as Scotty Dog's great! post's on these.If Geez says they are difficult Swip believes him.Read between the lines here..There is many around as they are tough.Bee can't wait for Mexico as these are too tough to work around!Swip is dreaming of Ephedrea in Los Torre.Those cellulose's are the big barrier.If left in,and the shells right Ware?they can be seen as little white specks in rxn solution and will turn your rp grey and unusable;rxn goes fine but won't convert dick.Good post Weaz!
all fed up!bee quits in Margaritaville
(Of Counsel)
05-13-04 16:50
No 506870
I have an appreciation for your endeavors, Weas, but I have the damnedest time trying to follow what the fuck you are doing. I think I have read this five times and I'll be damned if I can make sense of it from one end to the other.
Its not you ideas, it their experession, that throws me. Your freeflowing thought processes may make good reading to others, but they serve to confuse me and distract me in understanding the processes you describe.
I'd love to follow your method and give it fair try. I just have an inability to keep my attention spans hooked together long enough to comprehend your thought process. I can't stay hooked to the end, even though I want to.
I keep having this opinion... and its not a criticism of you personally or of your ideas... but damn, man, try to write in coherent paragraphs with a flow of ideas that help communicate what you mean to say. I suspect the paucity of responses you have to your method has more to do with the difficulty of comprehending your prose than it does with the ideas you expound.
I for one would love to try this out. I just can't comprehend what the fuck it is.
I don't know. Maybe its just me. I had to drink tequila to read early Wareamiese. What helps with Weasese?
mostly harmless
(Hive Bee)
05-14-04 08:23
No 507075
Geez,
But for your occasional reminders, I would still be writing five page, single sentence, posts.
I would like to warn anyone undertaking this process that some deviations in a few areas will greatly reduce the yields. SWIW was in a rush on the last run and although the resulting pseudo was still excellent, the yield however sucked ass at 1/3 expected.
SWIW felt it was prudent to post this. SWIW will post a follow up with specifics as well as a comprehensible version of the former post.
The Platipuss....God's sense of humor in action!
(Hive Bee)
05-18-04 17:33
No 507903
SWIW may have found the problem. When dry ISO was used durring the initial extraction of the pills, the solution never looked milky and yeilds were high. Switching to the 99% iso dropped yeilds as well as brought over a gack that helped the acetone disolve rather than precipitate the pseudo ....more to come...gotta keep that 9 to 5.
Also, kosher salt was only recently used. SWIW is not sure of the signifigance here but on high yeilding runs of this procedure SWIW used the Iodized table salt that was on hand. It also had in it the aticaking agents and a sulph-sometning...Will try to get another box of it.
(Hive Addict)
05-18-04 18:24
No 507917
Just planning for exams here but do you plan to release a Cliff Notes version of your recipe? It does sound like a good one because ever since the new PEGs reared thier syrupy heads (not the new generation of Gakks but those from a few generations past) I've not heard of anyone being able to successfully sidestep the LWR's to get good crunchy end product.
A nice little cheat sheet that could bee drawn on the back of one's hand would be awesome once the lab finals come around.
Am I the only one who wonders how VE is doing (his extractions) these daze?
(Popular Author)
05-19-04 00:54
No 508058
Yes, this was the post I was referring to earlier where the girl microwaved a pseudo/water/NaOH suspension. The other part I took from it was a wash with acetone when done. I will add that one the next time I try my method, and rig up something to check m.p. I wish I had an IR laying around to look for that OH cow udder absorbtion at the high end of the spectrum...
(Popular Author)
05-19-04 03:24
No 508089
If the microwave zapping was very effective at hydrolysing the polymer, redissolution of the product wouldn't be seen regardless of the solvent used to extract. Since neither the polymer nor the product dissolve in the basic aqueous solution used, it's reasonable to assume that only peripheral denaturation can occur instead of complete or nearly complete hydrolysis. In my experiment, I chose 91% isopropyl because it was sitting on my shelf, and because isopropyl has been said to be more selective in the extraction. The standard method of doing this hydrolysis reaction is with 95% ethanol(denatured alcohol) and KOH. The Boiling point of isopropyl is a few degrees higher, giving faster reaction rates than ethanol, but the boiling point is still around 80 C versus 70 for methanol. Boiling with straight methanol and hydroxide I think gives ester substitution rather than hydrolysis...I haven't read the texts on this reaction in a while...about 20 years. I have tried experiments with varying amounts of water in solution for this hydrolysis reaction. This was for hydrolysis of amides rather than esters, and the best yields were with the azeotropic alcohol(i.e. 95% ethanol or 91% isopropyl alcohol) rather than more diluted alcohol in spite of the fact that water is the reactant.
(Hive Bee)
05-19-04 06:31
No 508133
Ok upon further looking through notes it is not the ISO.
SWIW currently wading through notes and rewriting the post with a clear head. SWIW should never post in the wake of a successful run.
My apologies for being so hasty. It had been a while since SWIW had an end result so good, especially when it was repeated but at lower yields. The excitement along with typing the post without SWIW's notes was a stupid idea, that swiw intends on correcting. SWIW will be working with Geez on putting together a post that is more comprehensible.
(Stranger)
05-19-04 07:18
No 508140
2 things. Maybee 3
The ISO won't dissolve whole pills like that, and it just isn't suitable if you want a near quantitative raw/rough extract for basification.
Many 120s have an absorbant that doesn't dissolve but swells to about 4 times it's origional volume with any liquid..with sudo trapped, and large cellulose bodies trapped in there aswell.
Also what can happen is that unbasified pfed can exist in the non polar used to extract. IT's a problem if sulfate was the starting form.
I had your idea of taking a raw/rough sudo extract for hopefully a good clean result with an OH (denatured) extract.
The yield was a mix of pfed.h2so4 pinwheels and also some fb. A good yield I might add, ~60% first attempt on 1 packet.
(~50% useless without further processing...basification take 2)
You need enough water to accomodate all the alcohol present before basing, and for better base dissolution. This is so the pfed.salt doesn't simply migrate to the non-polar totally having bypassed basification.
Look I think your on to a good thing myself, the idea is right on and does work. It's solid, simple and removes hydrogel helpers such as starch and lactose which significantly effect yields by hindering the outflow of pfed from within the hydrogel structures.
References available.
weasil, do you think doing it your way works out better than simply dry-basing and using a weak hot (warm?) non-polar for extraction?
you going to try maybee acidifying the ISO a little for the "rough extracts" next?
Anyway both options work, well done and thanks for your write-up.
(Hive Bee)
05-19-04 07:52
No 508150
The ISO won't dissolve whole pills like that,
This is a joke right? The pills act almost identically in dry iso, 99% iso, and 97%iso. they bubble, shells split there is some swelling. They fall apart much like a cookie in milk, leaving the shells in un-dissolved flakes. When any lower percentage is used one will note the pills sticking to each other. In addition, more swelling per water in the mix. I will not entertain this any further.....
Also what can happen is that unbasified pfed can exist in the non polar used to extract.
unbasified pfed?exist in nonpolar?
Ok I am sure you are posting this to be helpful, so I will change my tone here. I will not ask for proof but I invite you to check this part.
As for the swelling a all, HELLO and thank you for joining us, please refrain from commenting unless you are sure what page we are on! Oh and see Geez for "Posts, Grammar and comprehension 101", I did!
(Stranger)
05-19-04 12:51
No 508186
'This is a joke right? The pills act almost identically in dry iso, 99% iso, and 97%iso. they bubble, shells split there is some swelling. They fall apart much like a cookie in milk, leaving the shells in un-dissolved flakes. When any lower percentage is used one will note the pills sticking to each other. In addition, more swelling per water in the mix. I will not entertain this any further.....'
Okay we won't go any further.
'So you don't think that unbasified pfed can exist in a non-polar?'
aw so there's no such thing as dual solvents between alcohol and a non polar to extract things which aren't soluble in a single solvent containing only the NP?
Checked it, how fast was that? It's what happens.
Dropping 120s in ISO causes them to swell, pop open leaving the sugary shell in pieces undissolved? cool, but the crap results I'm sure must bee quite funny. haha.
hilarious, you've lifted my spirits. thanks man.
(I don't give a shit about your welcomes either little one.)
(Hive Bee)
05-19-04 13:15
No 508190
Well let me apologize. Thank you kind Sir for your input. Why SWIW will make the needed adjustments immediately and disregard altogether what has been experienced first hand.
???????
Seriously please pm me with the points you intended to convey. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding.
(Hive Bee)
05-19-04 13:49
No 508193
ChemoSabe, SWIW rarely has the patients for a LWR however don't think that SWIW doesn't believe that the LWR produces a better product. SWIW doubts there is anything about SWIW's procedures that are that unique. Hell success has been had within the 54% range on a cook done without a hose, or condencer or anything. Just the flask stoppered. Vented here and there. Almost continuosly mixed by rotation of the flask. Nearly the same story everytime. Around 30 - 45 minutes after the aplication of heat the contents become "edgy" that is to say that it would be increasingly difficult to keep them from becoming violent if the heat were not reduced to the point that the reaction seemed to stop. So of course SWIW lets her rip and the contents begin to produce it's own heat...etc. etc. PM me if there were specifics before I go on for ever!
SWIW beleives the extraction to be the difference, but then again last summer swiw seemed to be the last efected by the GACKs and even then SWIW recalls only one maybee two Bee's getting similar failures. hMM!?
(Stranger)
05-19-04 15:23
No 508203
Of course, let's talk then. I wasn't having a go at you to start with.
It's a solid technique.
I don't doubt that you are getting all basified pfed, it depends how it's done. Your way obviously achieves that.
(Popular Author)
05-21-04 05:43
No 508532
I've seen them too...see the "Pill Fuckers at it Again" thread. This particular thread dealt with gas station ephedrine pills, and is a real impediment to extraction to put it mildly.
(Popular Author)
05-21-04 06:13
No 508537
I'd love to read the references for this swelling hydrogel. They probably stole it from the diaper manufacturers, but I'd love details. Do share with us....the pills have to release into water or they don't pass the FDA tests...in the case of ephedrine that means that the polymer package has to also mimic its water solubility and NaOH boiled with this polymer mix would denature them if I am thinking simply enough. Such a mix with pseudo would be more difficult if I am again thinking along the right path. Do share references....!!!
(Stranger)
05-21-04 09:33
No 508559
Uncle Fest.
The swelling I was talking about, it's not a hydrogel, it reminded Brian Lara of a simple clay like material..tan-gray in colour.
I don't think it's an immense problem, because as I say, Mike Atherton fiddled with that particular box a fair bit, transferring alcohol extracts about 6 times and filtering, allowing the clay to settle etc and the yield couldn't have been under a gram.
The very same pills also contained an orange-red, hard sap-like polymer. It melts well under 100C.
I know this because before grinding, the whole pills were placed in an oven to dry them out completely for easier grinding. The orange material that wouldn't have noticed, oozed out just like tree sap.
Seen anything like that in those same pills?
The reference is about the effects of various ingredients on matrix's ability to release the active ingredient, I've got a bad feeling it was one of the few that I've read that didn't talk explicitly about pfed, could well bee wrong...
Ill post it if you still want it, I don't like accessing encrypted files while connected to the net.
(Hive Bee)
05-22-04 09:29
No 508736
The original procedure at the begining of this thread has been edited. Anyone having questions or coments feel free to PM if desired. Thank You to those who helped out.
(Newbee)
05-22-04 14:53
No 508768
That is one goddamn excellent write-up. Well edited.
Now if there was only some way to make it less a pain in the ass..
and there always is..
(Of Counsel)
05-22-04 17:43
No 508790
Great job on the edit. Thanks for the comments section. Helps more than you think. I don't know and don't care where you are, but I caught the front end of a new release of 120's. Others are catching the newer versions now. Keep us updated on how this method works as they find their way to the market.
I'm too limited in my ability to buy any pills to take a shot at this method right away... if I had the pills, I'd be trying it this afternoon!
mostly harmless
(Hive Bee)
05-22-04 22:58
No 508845
SWIW's friend is currently finishing up step H of the process and will provide comments and notes later.
This process can be overwhelming if not familiar with the visuals or the "why" of each step.
Though SWIW's friend's house reaks of cat piss and sulfur he is grinning from ear to ear admiring the 6+ grams so far.
Since the procedure was not followed exactly the results suffered. This is excelent for feedback and comparison.
Preliminary Notes:
step A:
The pills were mixed of 2 lot numbers. Expirations were 12/6 and 1/7.
When ISO was added an aditional portion was initially required due to swelling. The extra portions were deducted from the additions that would follow.
Before the second filtration, in step A, a precipitate was noted and filtered off.
The heated bursts in his microwave were done in 12-15 seconds.
Step B:
The ISO was reduced down and went beyond the skinning point. The result was a yellow oatmealish mix that thickened as it cooled.
Additional ISO was added to the dish to wash the clinging crstals and wash then into the carafe.
Step C:
NaOH and more iso were added to the carafe and swirled.
after the addition of naphtha the mix was heated and boiled for a few minutes.
Step D:
Rather than allow the naphtha layer to seperate and then decant, the impatient Bee added portions of water here.
The result was a rumble boil with each splash along with the clearing of the naphtha. The carafe was returned to the microwave and boiled until the mix took on a yellow color. Upon settling the naphtha layer was a deep yellow color and the lower layer still had a fluid look to it.
Step E:
Our next deviation occurs here where the Clever little Bee swears by the iodized salt. SWIW's friend thinks maybe the iodine is what the gack is looking for and will release the pseudo... Anyway the naphtha solution was mixed with the iodized salt and stirred as a 1ml addition of hot water was added. The naphtha was decanted leaving behind the water and salt. this was repeated the poured through a Charmin square not packed but placed in the funnel and prewet with naphtha.
Step F:
Carafe was placed in a Self heating pot to provide a water bath.
When a vapor could be seen rising from the naphtha, it was removed from heat and transfered to the baking dish.
The precipitate that formed while blowdrying was filtered and resembled freebase pseudo. As such it was returned to the mix and reheated. After driving off more of the naphtha and ISO.........
more to come
(Hive Addict)
05-23-04 00:28
No 508858
Sent a copy of this swim's direction and he gave it a good quick skim.
Since he had forced himself to mechanically read the older verion a few times whether he got it or not he sais that this version was way easier on his "reading nerve" than the 1st edition.
he says he'll soon read it in excruciating detail and send back comments.
I may bee dumb and ugly but I make up the difference with my lack of personality
(Hive Bee)
05-23-04 10:23
No 508968
Step G:
Here SWIW encouraged the Bee to gas and see the results. A lack of damp rid was the deciding factor. The Bee used iodized salt here and began to form the hcl salt.
BUT WAIT WHAT"S THIS?
They are disappearing! Adding way too much acetone in combination with the moisture from the muratic can cause this. BTW, this was not an issue until "wet" iso was used for the original pull in step A.
SWIW suggested that the mix be shaken WELL then placed in the microwave to precipitate the pseudo. The trick here is to allow all but the naphtha to boil away. The dish will get very hot and the pseudo will seem as if it is mixed with sugar. Break it all free and filter hot through a cotton plug. Rinse well with acetone immediately. Set aside to dry.
Step H:
Again, he did his own thing here. He did not use the cotton topped Charmin, nor did he introduce naphtha at the right time. The result was however clean and radiated like pearls. It burned with a trace of sulfur on glass. SWIW noted a hint of that petroleum taste from gack. Hmm, we shall see!
Total from 5 box 20ct 120's was 6.78 grams
SWIW's friend is a bit more patient and did a short moist reflux. Cooked for 4.5 hrs.
The familiar purple to orange color was present when based. SWIW believes this to be orange GACK The Bee says it is iodine.
That explains allot!Not sure the total yield just yet. First set of rocks from H20/Acetone were worth the effort. 2.7 on this run. If he does like SWIW suggests he may end up with about 4.6grams of beautiful rocks. Now SWIW awaits his comments and notes.
(Popular Author)
05-23-04 20:26
No 509052
I saw the same thing in my pill wrecking experiment, but took it as melting acacia or other polymeric gak added. This was while evaporating a tolene pre-soak. I just tossed the mass in the blender with the alcohol and spun away. I don't think this melting crap is the crown jewels.
(Hive Bee)
05-24-04 01:42
No 509122
It seems SWIW left out a part of the procedure...
STEP C:
after 3.
3a. The ISo-NaOH-pill mass solution is boiled in the microwave with swirling for 20 to 30 minutes. The power is set to low. That means the microwave cycles radiation 3 seconds for every 30 seconds it runs. This keeps it at a mild but steady boil. Remember you can place a bowl/cup of water in the microwave to aid in fine tuning. Keep in mind that the microwave heats diferently than conventional heating methods. Also, without some sort of condencer setup the mix will dryout and the iso will releive you of some of your pseudo.
Sorry for the oversight.
(Stranger)
05-24-04 09:36
No 509183
'I saw the same thing in my pill wrecking experiment, but took it as melting acacia or other polymeric gak added. This was while evaporating a tolene pre-soak. I just tossed the mass in the blender with the alcohol and spun away. I don't think this melting crap is the crown jewels. '
Yeah I think your right about the acacia. It is really sap then.
I only mentioned the sap as a pill ID marker, but it's useless because many varieties contain gum acacia. oh well.
(Stranger)
06-02-04 02:13
No 510787
"It seems SWIW left out a part of the procedure..."
After reading weaz1dls post about the missing step SWIW1 was filled w/mixed emotions. Having dreampt of fucking up two attempts at this procedure, resulting in hours of futility, wasting 200 pills and copius amounts of chemicals,
SWIW1 is relieved to find he is not the fucking incompetant moron he was beging to think he was! However, after the initial wave of relief past, SWIW1 was just a little upset recalling the nightmare. But WTF. No harm, no foul. SWIW1 is willing to dream of this procedure one more time. As long as there are no more missing steps! Would like to know if any other bees have used this procedure. Please post results.
[i]
Never Give Up - Never Give In
(Hive Bee)
06-03-04 02:39
No 511101
Geez...Quit your bitchen! Just screwing with ya Geez.
Weas...SWIM use to play with and swear by those 120 pearls. Then when the only ones that would return anything usable were selling 10 cnt for 7.25 SWIM said piss on that. SWIM also found out that a mojority of the binders and Gakk was activated when basified.
Good work though.
A Terrible thought could have a Terribly long carrier
(Hive Bee)
06-03-04 02:54
No 511105
Ages ago SWIM found out and posted here that if one takes a metal strainer, places the 120 pearls in to the strainer, places the strainer in a bowl, then pours COLD - DRY ACETONE over the pills until the pills are covered and left to sit for a minute, they crack wide open. The strainer is then swished around in the bowl to premote the fine powdery insides to fall to the bottom of the bowl leaving the husks in the strainer.
This has the benifit of not activating the hydroscopic gaaks.
A Terrible thought could have a Terribly long carrier
(Hive Bee)
06-03-04 11:22
No 511185
SWIW is not sure if it was the dry iso or the new pills. Had a nightmare lastnight. Unwilling to waste more $$. Will run as posted with new pills soon. Beware and do not put all eggs in one basket. The freebased crystals that formed in a dish that had been used during the procedure formed 2 dif kinds. Needles and what looked like tiny wet feathers.
!@#$%^)**&%$#&%$@^$#
Molasas huh?
"dusts off webs from research folder"
Almost 10 years of this pill B.S. and this Bee is tired of fucking with pill contaminants.
(Popular Author)
06-04-04 03:37
No 511331
Did you ever see that classic "Destroy All Monsters"? On this page it should be "Destroy All Polymers"...and then clean up the mess afterwards.
(Hive Bee)
06-04-04 10:56
No 511384
Damndist thing is a semi decent product can be had rather quickly. This boggles the mind but here goes. Disolved the 120's in dry iso (sadist!) NO HEATING, added rock salt about 1/4 pill mass after they had broken into powder. Added naphtha. (WHAT?) shook well. Let settle some. Poured into a filter setup with unpacked cotton + rocksalt + prewet with naphtha. (look ma no clogs). Heated filtrate in micro, when cloudiness apeared poured in twice volume more naphtha and continued to heat. Flitered into a new clean funnel with unpacked cotton. Gravity filter off naphtha solution then pour in about 1 1/2 cup acetone. Swirl around and the volume of the powder begins to decrease. Vac applied. Let the crystals dry then place over Charmin plug dry. Pour in small portions of water and pull. First and third water pull resulted in beautiful wheels. Second or middle pull however contained the geometric formations. Likewise it had a plastic taste when smoked where the first and 3rd did not. Further cleaning or a LWR would be needed. Curiousity killed the cat.... this can't be this easy...glutton for punishment here we go ... with the 2nd pull added ... hot dry n fast gives that stuborn ass oil reaction that has to be heated to mars (mark here) or mixed with another .75 rp added by a little DH20 then coax it into a boil followed by a bit more I2 and more water, top with restrickted access condencer and crank it up to a hard boil very wet at this point. After about 30-45 min clears up a bit and I2 releases into condencer. Smidgen of aluminum cracks the oily bitch from the rp. If steps after "Mark here" are not caried out then a failed or incomplete reaction results. Been a while since these last steps had to be incorporated. Hate the workup of aluminum mess! Though the yeild held at it's usual for this slopy stoogefest the potency for such a sloppy pill pull was nothin to write home about but well obviously it worked! This is so confusing.
Signed,
Addicted to pill procedures!
(Hive Bee)
06-04-04 11:12
No 511392
Uncle,
First peice of "Cook" literature introduced to SWIW oh about 9 years ago was a blue paperback. Til then followed the rants of a few old goats who didn't like change to much nor did they want anything to do with pills. Of course SWIW disagreed with ya on a few things there Uncle, SWIW was intrigued and lets just say it was the carrot that lured. The old goats were soon semi impressed wich delited SWIW because after all they were still at it and up in age, so they were doing something right. (?) Anyway soon after came the first pill fucks and many a financial quakes. Anyway through it all SWIW has both cussed ya for lack of detail or confusing procedures. But ya know takes one to know one. Swiw sure is no chemist but firmly believes now with these new gacks that..
The more I think I know, The more I know I don't.
(Hive Bee)
06-04-04 16:11
No 511445
hot dry n fast gives that stuborn ass oil reaction that has to be heated to mars (mark here) or mixed with another .75 rp added by a little DH20 then coax it into a boil followed by a bit more I2 and more water, top with restrickted access condencer and crank it up to a hard boil very wet at this point. After about 30-45 min clears up a bit and I2 releases into condencer.
Come on man, either do the push/pull right, or opt for the LWR. A condenser is not needed in a proper push/pull setup, however it is the heart of a reflux. If you want to master the push/pull read up on posts by Jacked and Worlock.
Of course you could just skip all the b.s. and reflux that stuff for 24hrs for the same product every time. What is the big rush. Hell, you could adjust water ratios and shoot for a 12 hr. reflux, if time is the problem.
With as much time as swiw has put into his/her pill extraction techniques, a better reaction method (i.e. LWR), would certainly up your yeild and purity of product.
absorb what is useful, reject what is useless
(Hive Bee)
06-04-04 20:55
No 511484
The LWR would be best. However the above mix n match procedure was to get some results from an obviously contaminated run. SWIW has been known to experiment while cleaning up the previous botched pill tweak, refusing to give in and accepting low yeilds. When the I2 is unable to dance with the rp or the ratio is off adjustments can be made as SWIW is sure you are aware here. Taking it from a lifeless dry fast to a Hot wet short. Yes there is a drop in yeild just a bit compared to the LWR and no usually it is not Space dope with enough moisture added. As long as there exists the moisture the reaction temp stays steady ( ha ha steady...not your usual tiny bubles here...SWIW cranks it max) unless you go way out there with the temp. Same principle as the temp reading of a fractional distil. If all the fractions were kept in the flask the temp would steady out.... Why am I going on here...You obviously know all this. Sorry and thankyou for the observation. Just stuborn I guess!
(Stranger)
06-05-04 22:55
No 511672
It probably was the "dry"ISO. The crystals you described sound like magnesium sulfate. If you used MgSO4 as a drying agent for your ISO. You may have rushed the drying procedure. Break down some MgSO4 in water and recrystallize,and compare them to what you had. I quit drying solvents several years ago because of that very reason. I may get lower yields now, but then again , maybe my yields were higher before only because I had extra weight from the added MgSO4.