06-28-04 08:24
No 515957
Greetings Beez. Respects to all you'z in the upper hierarchy for the honorable service you do, not only to this website but to all of us knowledge-seeking aficianados out there... on to business: I know, I know, UTFSE you say (with the sexiest vehemenence, I might add...). Well I have. And I will continue to do so... Hell, I love TFSE! But this dude sent me a video tape where he did some kind of extractamathingee with otc cold pills (more specifically, those generic 120s and 240s) and whatever blasted green/blue-actin' polymer seemed there to just STAY. And I mean STAY. So yourz truly watched repeated recrystallization attempts yield an ever-decreasing green tint to the crystals... but that sucked. Let's clear it up... those 240 polymer(s), whatever they may be, are tough. I've read through ALL threads and still, REPEATED recrystallization sucks for those true to the chemist cause, right? Anyone got a quick panacea for the blue-goo or not? I realize different brands/different regions, blah blah. But for the most part, one specific lil' polymer causes this blight (correct?), so aside from repeateded cleanings, who knows specifically what it is and how to combat it? STAND UP AND BE COUNTED! AERO
(Stranger)
06-28-04 08:39
No 515960
Describe the extraction process your friend used, solvents, order of washes, were they heated or just soaked, and if so for how long. As far as the green goes: Since you used 240s my money is on Povidone mixed with polysorbate 80 from the generic 120s, making extraction/crystalization particularly nasty, but I cant say without more info
Rasputin
(Stranger)
06-28-04 09:11
No 515965
Process was essentially the Turps cure/tetra trap mix. One shot at the tetra left a VERY thick mix which looked nasty (and VERY hard to filter, I might add). Subsequent soaks in min. spirits seemed to clean a lil' better than the initial tetra trap, honestly. Then your basic alky Xtraction(s) yielded pristine specimens, but with a strong 'greenish' tint to 'em. Repeated recrystallization and a lil' activated carbon diminished the 'green mean' somewhat. This fella felt stuck and wanted to go ahead and use the 'greenies'... but his buddy suggested a final REWASH with Xylene... whitened the beauties even more. But this was a lot of work, geez! Hence, my post.
(Stranger)
06-28-04 09:15
No 515966
Sorry.... addendum: no heat w/ the tetra and 'spirits soaks. Hot alky for the pulls and recrystallization(s), cold Xylene for the final REWASH, this after the Suzy crystals were suspended in 99% ISO for 2 months (serving prudence). And they were the brand name, not generics. Sorry.
(Stranger)
06-28-04 09:40
No 515969
To do anything about it now, you could recrystalize the the hell out of it, it would help, but would be even more labor intensive. I would react it as is and say hell with it at this point, but thats just me. Ive worked with 120s and 240s many times and my two cents is that they take a very long and drawn out extraction process to clean even halfway decent. On a side note I have never mixed the two at the same time, and never will(just to messy}
A decent clean that I usually use for 240s:
Crush pills
Soak six hours in 3x volume methylene chloride,decant and repeat two more times
Cover in 2x volume dry acetone very gently boil,decant and repeat until it tests clean
Dry PM and perform STE, repeating the xylene precipitation step, then recrystalizing
For 120s:
same as above subing toluene for methylene chloride, and while soaking place the beaker in the fridge or freezer(sounds stupid but Im cnvinced it really helps get Polysorbate 80 out)
Hope this helped some, good luck
Rasputin
(Stranger)
06-28-04 09:48
No 515971
If the 120s are name brand(Sudafed), I would just use the process for the 240s on them because of the povidone
Rasputin
(Stranger)
06-28-04 09:53
No 515973
Thanks for the discussion Ras. This fella did that final REWASH w/ Xylene (made the green meanies a lil' whiter), then ANOTHER with toluene which brightened his day a whole lot more. Still, as you said, that's a lot of work and between you and me and the Hive, I've seen him forego the tetra-trap entirely and have greater success with Toluene and Xylene, Mineral Spirits, etc. for the initial soaks.
(Stranger)
06-28-04 10:01
No 515975
I never cared for the Tetra Trap either, low yields, of course thats just my opinion. On the plus side it was pretty easy and didnt smell that bad compared to others(STE,Turps Cure),Plus that Naptha chill is pretty cool to, oh well Im just rambling now.
Rasputin
(Stranger)
06-30-04 02:49
No 516454
Saw a more recent video today.. same green mean 120/240 polymers... same procedure, sans Tetra-Trap. Definately concluded with a Xylene wash and a little tolly... came out nice. There remained only a HINT of the green/blueishness... but it was actually kind of pretty. Later!
(Hive Bee)
06-30-04 16:59
No 516554
Their are many cures for your feedstock, just look around. Here is a link to just one Post 515043 (UncleFester: "once more with the name brand...", Stimulants), swim recommends you read the whole thread, because there is valuble info throughout.
Also check out the "gakinator"Post 512919 (Prepuce: "Gakinator?", Stimulants) thread.
Hope this helps.
absorb what is useful, reject what is useless
(Popular Author)
07-02-04 04:27
No 516837
Covered extraction of pills based on US Patent 6,136,864 with a couple of pages added to get you up to speed with the new pills...time release not included...the hypo reduction is now the show on that tape...
(Popular Author)
07-02-04 05:01
No 516843
will probably be made later this summer after I finish SOMM 7...in the meantime...how much imagination does it take to see the contortions required for the previous patent...and just juxtapose extract with alky and boil before gassing?? Let's see how these pills play out the next few months.