06-28-04 11:02
No 515979
When reading theses two post, Post 392895 (Jenna: "Jenna's simple, high yeilding ephedra extraction", Stimulants)and ../rhodium /ephedra
When react the raw product from a crude ephedra extraction, you will get a product which contains most methamphetamin and a little amphetamine and dimethylamphetamine right? Why so spend many dollars on pills or stem. destill.?
(Hive Bee)
06-28-04 11:20
No 515980
Unforunately Jenna's procedure won't work
. It's more complicated than that. Have a look here Post 498674 (jeffmills: "General thoughts about ephedra extract", Stimulants)
Post 490418 (place: "Ephedrine form ephedra with only using methanol?", Stimulants)
Post 491973 (place: "Fucked up ephedra steam extraction", Stimulants)
Biotechdude knows his shit when it comes to steaming ephedra.
May I ask, how do you pronounce 'Ma Huang?' Is it Like Mar Hung? Mar Hoo-ang? Mar Hoong? Mar Hong?
(Hive Bee)
06-28-04 12:56
No 515989
I know that with a simpel water extraction of ephedra you will not get clean ephedrine/pseduoeph.
But according to ../rhodium /ephedra
My points is, insted of clean the alkaloids 99% with steam and a/b, why not just take the easy way if it works??!
Have anyone tried reacting simpel-extracted alkaloids ?
(Hive Bee)
06-30-04 08:35
No 516504
"Ma Huang"
pronounced: ma - wong
Isolation is a must for the experimentation of a model subject.
(Hive Bee)
07-03-04 18:42
No 517189
hahaha. ma wong? come on now, trying to get people to ask stores where there 'wongs' are?
(Hive Addict)
07-03-04 19:06
No 517192
I have half a mind to visit a fellow bee that lives one state to the right and go harvesting this Nov. That would also fit perfect timing-wise for making a swing state vote for Kerry. Must go do that before more fields of the precious stuff are buldozed for housing tracts.
You can never have too much mormon tea on hand!
I'm just 2 persons short of a threesome
(Hive Bee)
07-03-04 19:11
No 517193
The old classic case of NOBODY TRYING SHIT.
Dont believe everything you read......Im talking about the bees who say that stuff doesn't work. Try it, try refluxing it for longer, try adding more I2, try cleaning the ephedra more with different solvents. Think about tricks used to make ganja oils.
Drop Bush! Not Bombs.
(Stranger)
07-04-04 01:55
No 517274
ok guys there is no real need for steam distilling the plant to get the essential oil.
quite pure ephedrine can be extracted easely from ephedra plant with a norma distillation.
the ephedrine is present in the plant as freebase.
pure ephedra oil has a 90% percentage of ephedrine.
to do a simple and very effective oil extraction, all u need it alcohol.
crush ur plant to fine powder ad soak it ethyl or methyl alcohol for an hour.
let the oil mix well in the alcohol, oce thats done u just need a normal distillation kit and the trick it done.
distill ur ephedra-alcohol mixture and on the recever ull get the oil of ephedra.
do a normal freebase extraction to get almost pure ephedrine.
this is a very simple way of extracting oils from plants.
its used a lot to extract pure mariuana oil.
for wut i noe it should work perfectly with ephedra.
any comments?
(Hive Bee)
07-04-04 02:07
No 517278
Maybee using the same sort of supercritical extraction with butane that you can use for weed would work well for ephedra, SWIM gotta get himself some ephedra plants to try this
Kids, say NO to the DEA!
(Hive Bee)
07-05-04 06:14
No 517513
Butane ephedra extraction would be an experiment I'd like to hear about. I'm still having a hard time finding a decent source of ephedra.....Those ephedra teas aren't pure ephedra are they?
Drop Bush! Not Bombs.
(Hive Bee)
07-05-04 19:45
No 517594
Molten MSM (>109°C) as extraction solvent
(Wonderful Personality)
07-05-04 20:10
No 517597
For several reasons the extraction of ephedra is not so easy comparable to the extraction of weed.
But I dont want to go in details now.
If you want to extract the ephedrine without basifying the plant material should be wettened with very diluted HCl (about 2-3%) and put in the freezer for some time before finally drying and grounding as this breaks up the cells of the plant. The HCl makes sure all your stuff is in the salt-form. Then several extractions with hot alcohol, preferable anhydrous methylalcohol.
On the gunk left after evaporation of the alc you may try a RP/I reduction with lots of RP. Some say it works.
Serious extractions are done by powdering, basifying with sodium carbonate and continous extraction with DCM. Followed by an A/B/A without isolating the ephedrine, this provides almost quantitative yields.
(This does not say welldone steam-extractions are not serious too...)
So you gonna visit your Hippy-father Chemo?
PM me if you need details on the above outlined method.
(Newbee)
07-09-04 02:16
No 518275
It seems as though a birch reaction would work well with the ephedrine extracted from ephedra. Has anyone tried this?
A concern of SWIM's would be that it would not form decent size crystals because of the small presence of similar alkaloids.
(Chief Bee)
07-09-04 03:49
No 518298
Have you ever heard of the acronym "GIGO"? It applies perfectly to your inquiry.
The Hive - Clandestine Chemists Without Borders
(Hive Bee)
07-09-04 05:35
No 518322
Same old questions...
The plant comes in 3 main varieties; the 'wildtype' with 1.5% alkaloid content, the 'preserved line' with 3%, and the genetically engineered line with 8%. Plus there is a shit load of commercial proucts promising more or less and plenty of bs...
Alcohol extracts on the raw plant will produce a a black, shiny (sometimes gooey) musty-smelling powder. It does react (as in the literature) to produce very low yields (<10%) (tested using Hypo and RP). Further refinements included the use of naptha to 'defat' the plant and sand filters to clean the extract. Both showed minimal improvements and added to the main burden of excess solvent usage.
A/B's on extracts (eg alcohol, water, HCL) did eventually produce clean results however difficulties arise from the mechanical losses from dealing with nasty emulsions. Additionally, pigments are other plant solubles are hard to remove. Lastly, freebase ephedrine's partial solubility in both water and NP solvents lowers yield.
In nature, the alkaloids occur as polyhydrate structures that are hence weak acids or bases of water. That means that you need to convert them to a either a strong salt (using HCL) or a strong freebase (using NaOH); in order to extract. The use of a blender and dry ice or freezing aids in the rupture of cell walls and increases the passage of alkaloids into solution.
Steam distilling can work well. Standard distillation of a pH 14 solution of the plant (or an extract) will liberate the alkaloids. Vacuum distillation didn't effect yield only speed things up. Foaming was a bitch as was the need to 'top-up' the volume of solution.
Steam distillation using an external steam source works better. This is because the freebase alkaloids (unlike meth) are better liberated by heating up the solution and plumbing in external steam (the Dwarjet works on the same principle). The distillate is then pH'd to 6 and all the water evaporated. An a/b of the distillate was discounted due to the large ammount of NP required and fb-ephedrines partial solubility conundrum.
When steam distilling, the main adulterant is 'Tannic Acid' (thanks Newton). It is difficult to remove and the best strategy was rinsing and decanting ice cold acetone, followed by a recrystalisation (more later).
Regardless of which route used, the goal (of efficiency) is to obtain clean white/clear alkaloid salts. Recrystalisations using alcohol/acetone were pretty good but the alcohol 'holds' onto the pseudo (lowering yields). Water/acetone works better and also better removes residual tannic acid contamination. The end result is odourless clear/white powder of even consistency and terrible bitter taste. Now to react...
Reacting this (relative) pristine feedstock, it has been dreamed using hypo, rp and h3po3 using premade 57% HI as well as Iodine alone to produce HI insitu.
Reaction yield derived from weight of feedstock varies depending on the post reaction workup scheme used - basic NP extract 70% ----down to---> 20% for the full optimum clean.
That is, a simple a/b on the reaction mix will extract the meth, but also other reduced and non-reacted alkaloids. It may all come out white and get u high; but it doesn't crystalise and tastes 'funny'. Gentle steam distillation (not using external steam) of the reaction mix better isolates the meth from unwanteds as they are better liberated using external forced steam distillation. The product can partially crystallise but mainly stays as 'powder'. For optimum results, an a/b can be performed on the distillate and the NP/meth-fb effectively washed. This evaporates down to a clear plate of glass. It then can be slowly recrystalised by evaporating IPA to produce a majority of nicely sized clear crystals that look, crack and smoke like odourless taseless meth. Bioa$$ay on the Gineau Pigs is WONDERFUL!.
So there u have it, take it or leave it
. OBVIOUSLY, this is a fictitious account of one individual. Results will vary, although 99% of questions and comments have been done before and the expensive lessons learnt. Just ask...
07-12-04 10:35
(Rated as: UTFSE!)