07-04-04 08:39
No 517352
Am I to understand correctly that it is still unknown exactly what all is in the pillstocks of late? I mean I have read for the past week on inactives orange gakks I & II, polysorbate 80, euradigit, povidone/peg and yet there is nothing (in what I have read) so far as to what the psudo pills contain inactive-wise which has been positively I.D. and pinned as the cause/nature of the orange gakks. I get alot of maybe and perhaps yet the fer sher is a no show. Also, I have read 4 posts that say how lucky one is that they dont have "euradigit" in the pillstock.
O.K. I am ever so grateful. Now exactly what the fuck is "euradigit" ?
If this is indeed the case, that is, nobody really knows what the fuck is in the various pills out there, would a trip through a gas chromatograph give a positive I.D. as to everything within the pill active inactive or otherwise?
I like to discover what I am up against before the fight, since even ubermann can suffer a asswhoopin when you get a bit of kryptonite on the way to the schoolyard. Gas Chromatography among other forms of high tech analysis can be expensive but are not out of reach. Am I so far from the herd that I am missing the meadow? I gots to know! Geez, MAN! Can you ever write!
uh, you know, stuff.
(Hive Addict)
07-04-04 17:44
No 517396
I find it extremely puzzling that some of the more professionally skilled bees have not positively ID'ed some of the stumbler gaaks that they have failed to list in the inactive list, but are clearly present in the pills.
The Extracto-Squad workerbees aren't set up with the precision analytical equipment to do that type of analysis and many lack the "skill in the art" and must rely on past experience in order to determine that something is in there that isn't listed outright.
No where is it found on the box that eudragit is listed.
Eudragit is made of up of classified mutagens for christs sake!
WTF is that? Good "Consumer Right To Know" practices?
These fuks aren't above poisoning a nation in order to eradicate a potential "drug of abuse" threat obviously!
I'm waiting for them to start employing a type of poisoning process unique to the common reduction methods such as when they employed the Weed Killer "Paraquat" to stamp out not only the Weed...but the spleefsmokers themselves!
Eudragit is here. It's been isolated. The only way Ibee's been able to ID it's presence is by it's chemical properties and behavior when removing it.
More can be read here in The Complete EUDRAGIT® & EUPERGIT®
Thread: Post 494861 (wareami: "Eudragit", Stimulants)
It's a pretty intense read so buckle down when ya have enough time to digest it AWE.
Three known solubility factors will affect eudragits removal.
But there are a list of other protectant inactives that must be dealt with as well. They are part of the delivery system itself.
The key is to dissolve everything in one fell swoop and provide a buffer for the amine to move into or you'll remove the amine with Oils.
Because they have included these oils, Ibee's thinking of re-examining the use of Dot3 as his earlier experiments before the Oils proved promising.
And again I caution....just because the pill isn't a time release formulation(ie...30mg or 60mg), doesn't mean they haven't employed a "Controlled Release" delivery system in the process of manufacture.
We now have in addition to extraction inhibitors, reaction inhibitors to deal with.
This makes for a medly of denaturants and adulterants to sidestep in the extraction process.
And Again I'll say...."They cannot put an ingredient in a pill that cannot be extracted"
Knowing this, they put other ingredients along side that are intented to travel with the active ingredient as a means of thwarting either the extraction or the rxn itself.
They've started adding base to the pills in order to adjust pH in such a way as to thwart amine migration.
Some will employ NP washes at some stages of extraction and guess what....the NP will become an amine thief if the pH is above 8-10pH so always check those discarded NP washes.
The purpose for the pH adjustments, it's assumed, is to maintain a perfect environment for the inactives and when adjusted in the process of extraction, they'll active some encapsulating agents or will in essence reek havoc on most A/B attempts.
H2O may become a Bees best friend again but more work is being done in that direction along those lines.
Always remember that when they keep adding layers on top of what already exists, they risk leaving another door open they previously shut with a prior systems inclusion.
Is this complicated? No doubt!
Is Extraction of the pure sought after impossible?
Never!
That's Ibee's take on this!
And cycosyince: If SWIM has a way of positively ID'ing, by name, any of the inactive components commonly found in any formulation, The Do-Bees on the Board would be eternally grateful for the enlightenment
Remember, it's not,
"Hi, how are you?" it's
"How high are you?"
(Newbee)
07-10-04 11:32
No 518520
Well, not that it will be funny at all, but I am going to predict a small "betcha it happens" with respect to the variety of wacky assed crap they feel needs to be added to any drug otc or otherwise. Soon you are going to see folks developing reactions that are hard to pinpoint and then it will be found that some of these "inactive" plastics and such are suddenly initiating dangerous reactions in people. a human is a walking chem reaction factory already, and the more sophisticated (drug company speak for 'uh, the tests are favorable') the formulas become, the better the chances for an unexpected reaction, not just allergic. I am of the thought that some maladies folks suffer are brought about by unique reactions between certain drug/food/bodily combinations that were never considered, (or more likely never reported) and the medical community is just as baffled due to the variables and numbers of substances that can concievably be consumed. Ever see some of the drug interaction pages? I refuse to believe the pill for profit barons have even attempted to do any more extensive testing than is absolutely necessary to get FDA (fuck dem' assholes) approval, only releasing interaction data to avoid laying waste to the profit base (you and I).
Boy I can rant when I get some dope in me huh? O.K. So gas chromy and or some mass spec DATA. Should be fairly simple as this area is rife with small anyl. labs (he said anal) So in my state of worry about my child's "new friends" and the "plastic bag I found on the lawn" I will see about getting a readout on some different psudo beans. in my travles though, gas chrom. machines, albeit used, are often inexpensive.(condition probably varies natch) PM if you wish to get a hint as to where I have seen this.
Finally, perhaps some wide spread mahuang seed dispersal. I mean lets look at it thusly: If the plant itself is widely available, it really don't matter what kind of shit or how much is in any psudo pill right? Botanically speaking I am sure some engineered speicies (<?SP) could be made that LOVE all manner of climates, and thrive accordingly...
If ya can circumvent the man........!
uh, you know, stuff.
(Newbee)
07-12-04 04:13
No 518792
Is it generally agreed that there are ingredients which are not listed on the inactives list?
It seems as though this would be a HUGE liability for the drug companies. Surely there must be some sort of legal loophole?
(Newbee)
07-12-04 07:36
No 518814
CASH. Now you know why it is called 'LEGAL tender' How good is the investigative team when things get out of hand? I have been to the hospital with myself, friends, neighbors, and a couple coworkers. and one reply I can honestly say I heard more than any other was "We just don't know."
My nephew had been to the Doc 6 times inside a year. 5 of those, the MD gave him antibiotics. He "probably has a low grade infection." On visit #6 the brother outlaw went and asked hey wadda fuck? MD runs tests. Well shit be brown he had INFLUENZA! I suggested a different MD but its a crapshoot. Doctors fix when they know whats wrong. FINDING whats wrong is often a fucked up journey along the "lets try lets see" highway. Very few MDs are skilled detectives. thus the drug Companies are fairly safe. Somthing goes wrong and drug baron is pinched, Cha ching money starts greasing, legal dept earns thier keep, product gets pulled if necessary. Pay a settlement, hush it up to lessen the flak. Meanwhile... Oh but make your own Ex and Oh bouy the deadly Xtacy is out there killing people by the .001s when they OD or combine with heroin and coke or some shit. Ah well tommorow is mon. so we will see what we can find out.
uh, you know, stuff.