07-23-04 19:45
No 521142
Swim has a solution containing only h3po3 and water. The label indicates: "Available phosphate(p2o5) 35%, Derived from: Phosphorous Acid", also says "This product contains no less than 5.1 lbs of h3po3 per gallon" It is a one gallon bottle with a net weight of 12.58 lbs.
I have done extensive reading and searching on h3po3 + I2 reduction but swims left with the following questions:
What is the preferred solution percentage used in this reduction? I have read that beez are using h3po3 = to h20. I assume that is in pure form so is this a 50% mixture solution?
Swim believes he has a 35% solution, what would be the recomended way to concentrate this solution without oxidizing it into h3po4?
Will the reduction work with current 35% solution if I compensate by increasing the ratios of h3po2/I2?
Swim is ready to dream about this very soon and was going to use 10g E(hcl) + 10g I2 + 25-30 mls of h3po3 solution (35%), relux for approx 4 hrs @ 120-130 degrees C. Does anyone forsee a problem with this? Should I concentrate the solution first?
Thanks for your assistance in keeping my dream from becoming a nightmare.
(Hive Bee)
07-23-04 19:51
No 521145
using 48%, if you want to concentrate don't have any worries, just get a lot of calcium chloride and build a dessicator. basically enclose your h3po3 mixture and cacl together with a fan blowing across the liquid. make sure that the cacl and h3po3 solutions never touch. you can remove a significant amount of water rather rapidly. you want to check the cacl everynow and then and change it out if need be.
(Stranger)
07-24-04 02:07
No 521213
I will set up a desicator type contraption with a fan blowing over the liquid. Can you give me some ideas on how to do this? I picture the calcium cloride in the way of the liquid itself so this wouldn't work. Could I put a tray of calcium chloride before the h3po3 so the fan blows at it and it dries the air? I think I may be missing something here.
Thanks for your quick reply and your feedback. I think I'll dream about evaping 1/4th of the solution off.
(Hive Bee)
07-24-04 09:18
No 521286
Just get it to a viscuous consistency at room temperature, if it's like cooking oil, it isn't thick enough.
Towards the end it'll really slow down, it's frustrating without a vacuum. Adding small amounts of meta-phosphorIC when you get it to cooking oil consistency gets it there pronto.
It'll degrade it, but air drying it also degrades it towards the end.
(Hive Bee)
07-24-04 10:51
No 521306
you're going to loose potency slghtly, but IMHO its worth the comfort of knowing you have the correct amounts and percentages. i'll try to better explain the dessicator by describing one of swibbs small units : swibb took a 5 compartment sealable plastic serving tray and converted it. this is basicaly a dish about 3 inches tall with a cirular 'dip' compartment in the center, and 4 'snak' compartments around the center. swibb attached 4 rubber risers on the top of the walls between the compartments. for drying solids swibb will put the solid in one or more coffee filters and place the solid open faced into the cener compartment add add dessicant to all of the 'snak' compartments. swibb then places the lib for the dish on top and locks it in place. on the inside of the lid swibb has mounted a computer circulation fan to blow at a slight angle across the center of the dessicator. now if it is a liquid that i am trying to dry seibb plces the liquid in a flat 1 inch depth glass pie dish. swibb then places the dish upon the risers inside the dish and places lid ontop. when the cacl begins to harden swibb wil carefully break up the cacl and when any of the cacl besomes solid he replaces it.
(Stranger)
07-25-04 05:00
No 521470
I think I'll dream about it tonight. I have access to a large portable dehumidifier, I'm thinking about using the dehumidifier to blow accross the liquid and still have the calcium chloride around it. Would applying low heat help speed the process without adversely degrading the active ingredient h3po3? I was thinking maybe "warm" or "low" on the burner dial.
thanks
G-Spot
(Hive Bee)
07-25-04 10:46
No 521508
h3po3 degrades at an exponential rate when heat is applied, trust me the cacl will pull the water out rather quickly.
(Hive Addict)
07-25-04 11:17
No 521511
That is some great information!
Question on the dessicator. Swim has a cube shaped ice chest. This ice chest comes with a removable food tray. (Im sure some of you have seen them at our favorite retailer)
The food tray could bee filled with a large quantity of CaCl. The food tray rests on a factory made lip near the top of the cooler. Pyrex pie plates full of the H3PO3 could bee stacked with a couple wooden rulers or similar in between each plate and the cooler filled to capacity with plates of solution.
Would this work as a dessicator or is the cooler too large, trapping in too much oxygen?
Purge the cooler of oxygen with an inert gas prior to closing the lid?
Thanks
Refuse/Resist
(Hive Bee)
07-25-04 11:37
No 521516
is the food tray above or below the area that would have the pie plates of h3po3? if its above then thik of a redesign, cause you don't i repeat DO NOT want to get ANY cacl in your h3po3. i've had personal experience with this. its result (as best i can figre) is some sort of calcium phosphate and chlorine gas, posibly even hcl. the reaction is sudden hot and noxious. that was a night i realize in retrospect that i nearly killed myself. its a lesson to not store highly reactive chems near one another cause shit des and will happen. anyway, so long as the cacl is below the the plates and there is airflow across the pie plates AND the cacl is easily removed then yes that would work :)) clear enough?
i suggest a dessicator with a drawer on the bottom so you can remove the cacl as needed