07-25-04 00:26
No 521416
did a box of 24 cheap canadian 120s, pristine pseudo, though seemingly low yeild (not yet weighed), as the naptha was being decanted pseudo was already precipitating, it slowly fell right to the bottom.
did another of the same boxes from the same store on the same day, and i'm gakked with something that keeps the pseudo in suspension. upon filtering the precipitate, the gak/pseudo formed a goo that is much slower to dry and upon drying is all white, but much less sparkly
has this gakk been ID'd??? i didn't reach any definate conclusions. even if i were to include the gakk in the weight my yeild would be even lower than the first box i did.
could my new tetra be the cause?? i ran out of the green bottle stuff so i had to get this bluee bottle stuff from a different manufacturer. contains tetrachloroethylene and CO2 (which wasn't listed on the green can but i assume it was present anyways)
(Hive Addict)
07-25-04 01:01
No 521420
It seems to nearly bee consensus that nearly all of the current crops of 120's can be mined for something but that yeilds are so piss poor from them that it's not worth the time/money/effort/chems used on them.
The last run swim tried with them he only got less then 50% from the first iso alx based pull and then when they were furtherly "scottydog specialed" (see his "gassing 120's thread) swim only got 30% back from that process.
It was quite reactable end precursor though and swim was _very_ pleased with the end results after only a 2hr SWR (Short Wet Reaction) Swim hasn't been able to pull off one of those since the onset of heavy duty PEG (2 years ago?) so that was kind of refreshing for him.
But those is really bad return numbers on the initial extraction end.
You can get something from them but not a lot.
Not sure how the KOH crowd is doing with the 120's but it might bee nice to get some real world reaction reports from that camp plus realistic yeilds for 120's.
In swim's book they are currently a somewhat of a dead animal.
Guesses on the Gaakks.
The ones you had success with only had polysorbate 80
The ones you did not not had both PS80 and Euradigit
Geography quiz hint - If Italy's a boot then were the crap they're stepping in
(Hive Bee)
07-25-04 01:21
No 521424
the 120's are sporadic at best. 50% one day 20% the next. despite their markings they have got to be from either different suppliers or the manufacturer is knowlingly making an inconsistent product. eudragit is prolly not real cheap, so i could see that it would be possibler that a maker would skimp here and there to preserve profit. notice that the prices haven't increased with the advent of this new shit. atleast not in swibbs hometown.
swibb refuses however to give up on the fuckers. where there is will there is way.
(Hive Bee)
07-25-04 06:27
No 521482
thanks guys, all my questions are answered! guess i'll keep with the 60s, and use a new container for post-tetra gups.
(Hive Addict)
07-25-04 07:13
No 521485
The manufacturers can keep these for the people who need decongesting because that is about all they are good for anymore. They haven't been on the shelf at the bluelight in Swim's area for almost 2 yrs but they are now!
They are a worthless, waste of money and Swim has sworn them off for good. If bees were to ban them, I wonder if the manufacturers would bee forced to reformulate, making them theoretically easier to extract? They used to bee a hot item for theft and the thieves aren't even stealing them anymore! This fact alone, must tell us something.
Yep, that is Swim's consensus on them. 50% one day and 20% the next. Someone is skimping on the goods!!
Kind of like the 240's, nobody wanted them so they were forced to hand out sales promotions with a "limited time offer" reduced price. First come the promotions and if that doesn't work, then comes the reformulation.
The blue 60's are in the same category! They gakked them to living hell and then raised the price?? Bad move! The shit can expire for all Swim cares.
Due to the HUGE influx of cheap mexican gear, pills aren't selling like they used to. Clerks and pharmacists will stare you in the face and say they are but Swim knows they are lying.
The time will come when they will have to either drop prices or stand up to the feds and reformulate (all in the name of profit)
To stay on topic, its not the tetra, its the shitty pills!
Tenemos la fuerza
(Newbee)
07-25-04 15:27
No 521534
Swim has noticed that his white 60's vary box to box as far as what gak they decide to throw in.
(Popular Author)
07-26-04 01:50
No 521623
self absorbed twit.
(Hive Addict)
07-26-04 01:53
No 521624
You say they are not a dead animal, then care to explain why?
Nothing mentioned in your "deconstructionist thought" thread, referring to any experiments beeing done with the 120's.
Or is that for US to find out for ourselves?
I have to agree with Chemo, 20-30% yield = dead animal to SWIM. Any better news?
Refuse/Resist
(Popular Author)
07-26-04 02:15
No 521628
The procedures as given work fine cracking red hots, and probably 60's, but I've never tried them. I would really like you to get some KOH, and extract pills efficiently without use of toxic and difficult to properly dispose of solvents. You need not try to dare me on this one.
(Hive Bee)
07-26-04 03:38
No 521651
it looks to me like we're all saying the same thing. 120's are at current time pretty pointless to extract from, or am i reading festers post wrong?
(Popular Author)
07-26-04 03:43
No 521654
stay away from 120's although reading the patent for the blue goo...it seems that the goo can be collapsed at a pH of 2 or so or lower...
(Hive Bee)
07-26-04 03:56
No 521660
do you have a link to that patenet again? i actually did a test with 120's that i didn't post the results of realy, but it was a mixture of your KOH treatment and my stomach acid approach. essentially swibb put the unground pills in anhydrous ipa, acidified to 2, kept on heat at 40C for 30 minutes then hit with baking soda te base to 7.5, then let simmer on heat for another 30, it is at this point that swibb tried to add a NaOH, KCl mix to a now hot mix of the 120s ipa hcl and baking soda. trhe results were lack lsuter but i am wondering what would happen at this point if i had used KOH instead. swibbs going to try and get a bag of KOH tomorrow and give this a shot, but fester if you have chance and or interest to try this out, would you?
(Popular Author)
07-26-04 04:08
No 521662
US Patent 6,699,502. If I was to try to extract them again, I would extract with water basified with some bicarb to get the polymers to release into the water...then collapse them by lowering the pH...try to filter the goo after collapse...and go from there, wherever that leads.
(Hive Bee)
07-27-04 03:38
No 521894
as stated, the 120's require a more thorough saturation with tetra before proceeding with the 2nd np and dh20 than the 240s or red hots. You would do well to saturate and heat at least 3 times, and might even over-saturating and then squeezing out the final tetra application before proceeding.
They do require more work, but yields can be maintained.
(Hive Addict)
07-29-04 12:38
No 522432
Onkle Fester wrote...
self absorbed twit.
No matter how hard you try I won't disrespect you. But you do got me nailed on the self absorbed quotient.
Reaction results are quite important although I'm not necessarily accusing you of not providing them.
With the utmost of respect,
CS
Geography quiz answer - Albania