08-19-04 13:55
No 526333
This thread title is
similar to the one questioning
the useage of salt.
but different.
Marvin says this works.
I didn't believe it until
I saw him do it.
Credit to Gemini,
who discovered it
in pill separations:
and verified elsewhere by da Top Dawg.
So you have your semi-grungy water level,
and the overlying NP, and you have based the
water level appropriately:
You have shook, shaken, beat,stirred and
otherwise mechanically thrashed the two liquids
soze the base molecules should migrate:
but when you gas the separated NP??
frick frack WTF?
Anyway, enough of the histrionics:
you add a small amount of alcohol
(the blended ones from your hardware store
will work just fine..)
and beat crap outa it again.
Filter the separated NP:
wash with a large quantity
of pH 12 or so water,
(don't use "normal" pH water)
gas and be happy.
The OH helped make the transition
"easier" for the base molecules.
(I think it is residual poly ampholytes that
cause this phenomenon: the alkie overcomes
the foilant's dual nature
(making the A/B technique obsolete
on the front side, (for many formulations...)
and a prob here, after reaction, as well.....)
This likely is duplicative of others postings:
but I couldn't find it:
so here it is.
PS:
xoxo to Gem
dwarfer
(Hive Bee)
08-19-04 19:00
No 526382
This likely is duplicative of others postings:
Most likely not, here in the stimulant forums anyway. Maybe in other forums which swim doesn't frequent. This seems to be a great idea!
I like this particular passage the most!
I think it is residual poly ampholytes that
cause this phenomenon: the alkie overcomes
the foilant's dual nature
69
(Hive Bee)
08-20-04 03:25
No 526445
This makes sense. You could probably add quite a bit of alcohol, depending on how much water is present, without transferring gaks up to the NP.
The less salt present the better.
(Hive Bee)
08-20-04 17:45
No 526533
There should be no fukking salt present. Period.
I'd like to have her right there on floor with the 'ol in/out, real savage.
(Hive Addict)
08-21-04 05:48
No 526584
Dworpher wrote...
Filter the separated NP:
wash with a large quantity
of pH 12 or so water,
(don't use "normal" pH water)
gas and be happy.
Are you implying that straight distilled water isn't so good for this?
What to add to the wash water before washing to achieve this pH?
I would guess not to use NaOH since that's much of what the washes seek to remove.
And when you say "filter the NP" do you mean to simply run it through a coffee filter before doing the high pH water washes?
Are the high pH water washes specifically for a run that has used alcohol as a "freebase pusher?
Will 99% iso work well for the pusher?
Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
08-21-04 12:10
No 526623
You can use a 25% NaOH solution to wash with without a problem. It use to be a standard around here.
25% going in 28% coming out, there is room for more
Tighten Up! (UH)
(formless fortitude?)
08-21-04 12:13
No 526624
This is the same reason that H202 works,( I believe), as Geez had posted.
I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code.
(Hive Addict)
08-21-04 14:48
No 526584
Dworpher wrote...
Filter the separated NP:
wash with a large quantity
of pH 12 or so water,
(don't use "normal" pH water)
gas and be happy.
Are you implying that straight distilled water isn't so good for this?
What to add to the wash water before washing to achieve this pH?
I would guess not to use NaOH since that's much of what the washes seek to remove.
And when you say "filter the NP" do you mean to simply run it through a coffee filter before doing the high pH water washes?
Are the high pH water washes specifically for a run that has used alcohol as a "freebase pusher?
Will 99% iso work well for the pusher?
Without the existence of idiots geniuses would simply vaporize into thin air
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
08-21-04 21:10
No 526623
You can use a 25% NaOH solution to wash with without a problem. It use to be a standard around here.
25% going in 28% coming out, there is room for more
Tighten Up! (UH)
(formless fortitude?)
08-21-04 21:13
No 526624
This is the same reason that H202 works,( I believe), as Geez had posted.
I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code.
(Hive Martyr)
08-22-04 04:28
No 526682
For some reason I thought this post was gonna be about pushing the meth form the Non-polar layer into the hcl+Dh2o layer upon finishing up ,and the alcohol to aid in getting all the meth from the non-polar.
If anyone reads the Chemical & Equipment forum they'll figure out why I thought this novel idea (which it sounds like it could be) was the key to my post on toluene.
That sucks. But then again I wonder if adding methanol to the final titration mixture would aid in either combining with the toluene or the lower polar layer....
Food for thought.
http://www.dodgeit.com
(Hive Bee)
08-22-04 18:27
No 526780
This is the same reason that H202 works,( I believe), as Geez had posted.
So go on, how do you believe they both work?
I don't think they're anything alike at all. One is related to solubility and one to oxidative degradation and reaction IMO.
Adding alcohol will provide a better solvent for trapped meth and pfed bases, while still within the basing medium. Which is just wht the Dr ordered.
Hydrolysis
Although cellulose is sufficiently stable toward hydrolysis to allow it to be dyed, finished and laundered, it is susceptible to hydrolysis by acids and, to a lesser extent, by alkalis. Acids attack the acetal linkages, cleaving the 1-4-glycosidic bonds. Since acetals are quite stable toward alkali, hydrolysis at high pH usually requires more vigorous conditions than at low pH. A number of different base-catalyzed reaction pathways are possible and chain cleavage usually results from several concurrent reactions. Cellulose is also degraded by cellulase enzymes.
Oxidative Degradation
Strong oxidizing agents and/or vigorous reaction conditions convert cellulose into CO2 and H2O. Under less vigorous reaction conditions, cellulose is capable of a variety of oxidation reactions, many of which are predictable by analogy to simple alcohols, trans-glycols and acetals. In general, oxidation of cellulosic hydroxyls forms the expected aldehyde and ketone, and carboxyl groups. However, unlike their simple carbonyl analogs, the oxidation products of cellulose (termed oxycelluloses) are significantly less stable in the presence of alkali. Chain and/or ring cleavage occurs by abstraction of the acid hydrogens a to the carbonyl, followed by b -alkoxyelimination.
Non-flaming combustion (or glowing combustion) of cellulose occurs by direct air-oxidation of cellulose at high temperature and produces water, CO and CO2. Although it is difficult to make pure cellulose burn in a non-flaming mode, contaminants, such as alkali metal salts, promote glowing combustion. Flaming combustion is a gas phase oxidation process and, thus, requires prior pyrolytic or thermo-oxidative degradation of the nonvolatile cellulose chains to form flammable, volatile, organic compounds.
Thermal Degradation
A number of different thermal degradation reactions are known to occur with cellulose at different temperatures. Degradation at lower temperatures (as in aging of cellulosic materials) is often predominantly thermo-oxidative and/or hydrolytic. As expected, aging of cellulose is, thus, usually a function of humidity, light, oxygen availability, etc., in addition to temperature. At higher temperatures (>200° C) water is lost, first from that absorbed by the cellulose and then by b -elimination from the cellulose hydroxyls. At still higher temperatures (>250° C), several competing pyrolytic reactions begin to take over. These reactions can be grouped into three basic classifications: the first group occurs at lower temperatures and is similar to the aging reactions. Products are water, CO, CO2 and a carbonaceous char. At higher temperatures, another reaction begins to take over which results in depolymerization of the cellulose chain and formation of anhydroglucose derivatives, volatile organic materials and tars. At still higher temperatures, more-or-less random bond cleavage of cellulose and intermediate decomposition products results in formation of a variety of low molecular weight compounds.
http://www.fibersource.com/f-tutor/cellu