09-24-04 16:51
No 533030
The last time I asked I got a discussion on the purity of OTC acetone so here goes again.
I have been using the same procedure for about three years since discovering it by accident. It never fails.
1. Grind pills very fine in coffee grinder. Most recent try was with 240 mg Pseudo/loratadine 14.99 for 15.
2. Rinse twice with 20 degree C. OTC acetone. I use about 300 ml per rinse. Can label says "100% pure". Soak 10 minutes or so until powder settles back to the bottom then decant acetone and save pill powder.
3. Make a solution of 1 gram of OTC lye and about 30 ml OTC 95% ethanol. This takes some crushing and stirring, and sometimes I add another 10 - 15 ml ethanol. Solution gets very thick.
4. So, with 45 or so ml of lye/ethanol mixture, I add it to dried, double acetone washed pill powder. Stir, stir, stir. Mixture becomes thick paste.
5. Add 50 ml OTC acetone. Yes, the same acetone from the same can. Apparently, pseudo FB is acetone soluble where HCl salt is not. After addition, stir, stir, stir.
6. After 10 min or so, when powder settles back to bottom, decant acetone into that Pyrex pie dish of yours and evaporate. Result is lots of fishy smelling shards of glassy crystals. scrape them up, and they get a little yellow, but no worrys.
7. Use these fine, clear FB crystals in reaction of your choice. (RP/I or Li/NH3). Makes good clean shit.
So... Any feedback? Anyone ever try this method?
I suffer from reverse paranoia. I think everyone is out to help me.
(Of Counsel)
09-24-04 20:23
No 533058
Who would have thought it was that simple?
Ummm...what you planning on making out of that stuff, anyway? And how much of it do you expect to get? How does the loratadine burn on foil, by the way?
I'm only partly joking. I do know of a few types of pills you can use this method to extract the pseudo from successfully, even though none of them are sold in my area now. I also know that most current OTC pseudo products now contain gakks that will stampede their way through this method and herd up in the evap dish, ready to sneak their way into the reaction and take it over. You may not even know they are there until you start working the reaction up. By then, they will have ruined your yield, limited the quality of the meth, and what you have may even make you sick.
You may be having success with your pills of choice. If so, congratulations. I confess I have my doubts about how clean your pseudo really is. Loratadine is not that easy to shuck. Neither are the Eudragit polymers, the Orange gakks, the polysorbate 80, the PEGs...The waterless a/b and its variants worked well at one time on most pills. I haven't used the method in a couple of years now. There are better methods for dealing with the current crop of gakks and polymers.
Your expectations as to the yield and quality of the final product may be different than mine. I wouldn't react pseudo that was yellow, frankly, and wouldn't react what you have in that evap dish if it didn't recrystallize quickly. Which I really doubt it will.
Please do newbees a favor when you post a technique of this nature. Take the time to list the ingredients, active and inactive, in the pills from which you have sucessfully extracted clean pseudo using this method. Give us your yield in pseudo and your yield of meth from the reaction. Honestly. Good, bad, or indifferent.
This would help us evaluate your method and your claims, without requiring us to rely on your subjective assessment of success. We are not familiar with your level of skill yet, or with your range of knowledge. I don't mean to sound discouraging, or to denigrate your post. I do hope to make the point that without better descriptive information, you may be steering someone else into a costly and wasteful squandering of hundreds of perfectly good pills. I've done that before, and eaten crow over it, taking back unfounded or inaccurate claims when I later learned things were not as I had thought them to be. I learned, in fact, to avoid posting about a pseudo extraction method until the meth made from the pseudo had been recrystallized and evaluated by other folks. I feel like I owe that to my fellow bees.
Besides, it sure beats the taste of crow feathers.
mostly harmless
(Stranger)
09-24-04 20:48
No 533065
Thanks, Geezmeister! At last (or, since I show up so infrequently), a reply that helps. It was my thought that the first acetone washings took care of most everything that was acetone-soluble. I have evaporated those and discovered all kinds of greasy funk. The ethanol/lye really needs to be saturated or you get plastic/waxballs/otherwise solid clumps. It is like a waterless A/B but I have a hard time believing I posess the Karma to have purchased/been given only those select pills that work with this particular extraction. All I have in my defense is many successful tries. I know the embarassment of screwing up someone elses' precursors all to well and would never steer you wrong. I have made many a believer though...
In future posts I will follow your suggestions. I have had great success in reactions with this product and have resided in midwest, Bay Area CA, panhandle FL, and Tempe AZ over the years and it seems all my failures are related to unsaturated ethanol, impure acetone filled with wax or water contaminated, or laziness/chronological pressure.
Once again... Thank You Geezmeister.
I suffer from reverse paranoia. I think everyone is out to help me.
(Stranger)
09-24-04 21:08
No 533069
As for yields... Always at least 50% of theoretical. Usually about 65%. O.K. not the greatest. Speed and the limited number of chemicals required keep me set in my ways.
1. can generic acetone. Must say 100% on label. Best results with new cans. "Manicurist Solvent" works well too.
2. 95% ethanol. Brand name liquor store works well.
3. Lye. Brand name drain cleaner only kind ever tried.
4. Pills. Have tried 60mg/triprolidine generic and name brand. Highest yields.(70%+) 30mg red - extra step involved removing red. haven't used for 2 years. 120mg/antihistamine combinations - work fine (60%-65%)just like 240 mg/antihist-
amine tabs. 120 mg and 240 mg without antihistamine have been used on rare occasions with same success but always seem to be more expensive than with antihistamine. 25mg ephedrine very rare but 85% yield. 25mg ephedrine w/200 mg guaifenesin tried out of curiousity and yield was low (about 40%). It seems that the more pill mass the lower the yields. Good luck to all who try... I often mix different brands together with few losses.
I suffer from reverse paranoia. I think everyone is out to help me.
(Stranger)
09-25-04 01:51
No 533030
The last time I asked I got a discussion on the purity of OTC acetone so here goes again.
I have been using the same procedure for about three years since discovering it by accident. It never fails.
1. Grind pills very fine in coffee grinder. Most recent try was with 240 mg Pseudo/loratadine 14.99 for 15.
2. Rinse twice with 20 degree C. OTC acetone. I use about 300 ml per rinse. Can label says "100% pure". Soak 10 minutes or so until powder settles back to the bottom then decant acetone and save pill powder.
3. Make a solution of 1 gram of OTC lye and about 30 ml OTC 95% ethanol. This takes some crushing and stirring, and sometimes I add another 10 - 15 ml ethanol. Solution gets very thick.
4. So, with 45 or so ml of lye/ethanol mixture, I add it to dried, double acetone washed pill powder. Stir, stir, stir. Mixture becomes thick paste.
5. Add 50 ml OTC acetone. Yes, the same acetone from the same can. Apparently, pseudo FB is acetone soluble where HCl salt is not. After addition, stir, stir, stir.
6. After 10 min or so, when powder settles back to bottom, decant acetone into that Pyrex pie dish of yours and evaporate. Result is lots of fishy smelling shards of glassy crystals. scrape them up, and they get a little yellow, but no worrys.
7. Use these fine, clear FB crystals in reaction of your choice. (RP/I or Li/NH3). Makes good clean shit.
So... Any feedback? Anyone ever try this method?
I suffer from reverse paranoia. I think everyone is out to help me.
(Of Counsel)
09-25-04 05:23
No 533058
Who would have thought it was that simple?
Ummm...what you planning on making out of that stuff, anyway? And how much of it do you expect to get? How does the loratadine burn on foil, by the way?
I'm only partly joking. I do know of a few types of pills you can use this method to extract the pseudo from successfully, even though none of them are sold in my area now. I also know that most current OTC pseudo products now contain gakks that will stampede their way through this method and herd up in the evap dish, ready to sneak their way into the reaction and take it over. You may not even know they are there until you start working the reaction up. By then, they will have ruined your yield, limited the quality of the meth, and what you have may even make you sick.
You may be having success with your pills of choice. If so, congratulations. I confess I have my doubts about how clean your pseudo really is. Loratadine is not that easy to shuck. Neither are the Eudragit polymers, the Orange gakks, the polysorbate 80, the PEGs...The waterless a/b and its variants worked well at one time on most pills. I haven't used the method in a couple of years now. There are better methods for dealing with the current crop of gakks and polymers.
Your expectations as to the yield and quality of the final product may be different than mine. I wouldn't react pseudo that was yellow, frankly, and wouldn't react what you have in that evap dish if it didn't recrystallize quickly. Which I really doubt it will.
Please do newbees a favor when you post a technique of this nature. Take the time to list the ingredients, active and inactive, in the pills from which you have sucessfully extracted clean pseudo using this method. Give us your yield in pseudo and your yield of meth from the reaction. Honestly. Good, bad, or indifferent.
This would help us evaluate your method and your claims, without requiring us to rely on your subjective assessment of success. We are not familiar with your level of skill yet, or with your range of knowledge. I don't mean to sound discouraging, or to denigrate your post. I do hope to make the point that without better descriptive information, you may be steering someone else into a costly and wasteful squandering of hundreds of perfectly good pills. I've done that before, and eaten crow over it, taking back unfounded or inaccurate claims when I later learned things were not as I had thought them to be. I learned, in fact, to avoid posting about a pseudo extraction method until the meth made from the pseudo had been recrystallized and evaluated by other folks. I feel like I owe that to my fellow bees.
Besides, it sure beats the taste of crow feathers.
mostly harmless
(Stranger)
09-25-04 05:48
No 533065
Thanks, Geezmeister! At last (or, since I show up so infrequently), a reply that helps. It was my thought that the first acetone washings took care of most everything that was acetone-soluble. I have evaporated those and discovered all kinds of greasy funk. The ethanol/lye really needs to be saturated or you get plastic/waxballs/otherwise solid clumps. It is like a waterless A/B but I have a hard time believing I posess the Karma to have purchased/been given only those select pills that work with this particular extraction. All I have in my defense is many successful tries. I know the embarassment of screwing up someone elses' precursors all to well and would never steer you wrong. I have made many a believer though...
In future posts I will follow your suggestions. I have had great success in reactions with this product and have resided in midwest, Bay Area CA, panhandle FL, and Tempe AZ over the years and it seems all my failures are related to unsaturated ethanol, impure acetone filled with wax or water contaminated, or laziness/chronological pressure.
Once again... Thank You Geezmeister.
I suffer from reverse paranoia. I think everyone is out to help me.
(Stranger)
09-25-04 06:08
No 533069
As for yields... Always at least 50% of theoretical. Usually about 65%. O.K. not the greatest. Speed and the limited number of chemicals required keep me set in my ways.
1. can generic acetone. Must say 100% on label. Best results with new cans. "Manicurist Solvent" works well too.
2. 95% ethanol. Brand name liquor store works well.
3. Lye. Brand name drain cleaner only kind ever tried.
4. Pills. Have tried 60mg/triprolidine generic and name brand. Highest yields.(70%+) 30mg red - extra step involved removing red. haven't used for 2 years. 120mg/antihistamine combinations - work fine (60%-65%)just like 240 mg/antihist-
amine tabs. 120 mg and 240 mg without antihistamine have been used on rare occasions with same success but always seem to be more expensive than with antihistamine. 25mg ephedrine very rare but 85% yield. 25mg ephedrine w/200 mg guaifenesin tried out of curiousity and yield was low (about 40%). It seems that the more pill mass the lower the yields. Good luck to all who try... I often mix different brands together with few losses.
I suffer from reverse paranoia. I think everyone is out to help me.
(Stranger)
10-07-04 08:55
No 534801
Sounds like UncleFesters new method using KOH but using Lye and not as much alcohol.