06-18-03 21:39
No 440947
Can Chloroform be used instead of DCM in the modified performic?
Thanks
"Now they call taking drugs an epidemic - that's 'cos white folks are doing it - Richard Pryor.
(Hive Bee)
06-19-03 01:51
No 440984
I'd think so. I can't see no reason why not. The density is about the same and so are the physical properties in general.
Regards
Bandil
Size doesn't matter, it's the sound you make when hitting the ground after smoking it, that matters!
(Newbee)
06-19-03 02:18
No 440989
Yes it does seem to make sense. Normally chloroform is not mentioned so much as it is probably harder for bees to find. But swim has a continuous supply lab grade 10US$ for 2.5L.
Actually swim really wants to use this as the main solvent in all reactions if possible ( including the Al/Hg amination) and save the tolulene (yes difficult to get here! but stacks of chloroform on the shelf!!) for gassing. It's also useful in cleaning MeAm.HCL and only +20 celcius boiling point above DCM
Swim understands that DCM keeps the temperature controlled, in the modified performic, because of it's boiling point but swim has no trouble keeping the temperature in the 25-35 Celcius range with her rig and slow addition of the performic.
Swim actually thought about it for gassing. The solubility in water is half that of DCM, according to some data.
Anyway really looking for the thumbs up for chloroform.
By the way bees should be aware that both DCM and chloroform are used to "glue" plastics. E.G. Brochure holders on counter tops are stuck together using these solvents. Thought it might help some bees source it .
Please more encouragement for the use of chloroform. Doesn't smell to bad either, plus you can knock youself out after working your butt off for days and fucking up the gassing - shit not again!!!
Thanks again
"Now they call taking drugs an epidemic - that's 'cos white folks are doing it - Richard Pryor.
(Hive Bee)
06-19-03 04:13
No 441000
You can most certanly substitute DCM with chloroform in most(if not all) reactions where DCM is the solvent(Shulgin uses both as he pleases). But the problem with exchanging toluene for chloroform is the density. Toluene is lighter than water and chloroform is the opposite. I think it is quite dependent on the reaction type you are running.
For gassing however i'd suspect that chloroform is excellent. DCM works as a great substitute for toluene and with chloroform being even less water soluble i'd think that it might be better than DCM for gassing...
Regards
Bandil
Size doesn't matter, it's the sound you make when hitting the ground after smoking it, that matters!
(Chief Bee)
06-19-03 06:49
No 441014
If you gas MDMA in DCM you won't get full recovery of your product, I suspect the same is true for Chloroform: Post 439196 (Rhodium: "Gassing in DCM works for MDA but not MDMA", Newbee Forum)
Also, if you use chloroform instead of DCM for the modified performic, make sure you have the reaction flask in an ice-bath to prevent the temperature from going too hot - the bp of DCM at ~40°C keeps the reaction mixture stable at that temp, while as chloroform does not boil until ~62°C, you need to use external cooling for the reaction to stay at 40°C or below - something that needs to be done to minimize the formation of byproducts resulting from thermal decompostion of intermediates.
(Newbee)
06-19-03 13:57
No 441121
Due to material constraints swim dreamed about this once and decided to try it awhile ago. As Rhodium said the ice bath is a must. Even with it chilling the rxn mix it was found that you need to make the addtion about one quarter the rate than you would if using DCM to keep the temp in control. Aside from more babysitting the reaction, it produced yeilds that were almost identical than those w/ DCM. If you have pets around be sure to vent the chloroform vapors outside. I've had a cat stumbling around in a drunkin state from my dream w/ this. Good luck!!
A reinvented wheel will still roll.....