k0dog (Hive Bee)
11-26-03 20:25
No 473401
       Find the difference in heat of formations for...     

ketamine and its precursors...

precursor + energy ---> ketamine

but how would you calculate the difference in energys?
"Vanity is defintely my favourite sin"
-Devil's advocate 		 
 
 
 
    terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
11-26-03 21:15
No 473410
       Calorimeter     

Burn samples of the precursors and product in a calorimeter.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. 		 
 
 
 
    k0dog
(Hive Bee)
11-26-03 21:19
No 473413
       emerpical???     

is there not a non-emperical way to do it... I mean... I could I suppose... but I woudl rather just do some calculations and stuff... also i ahve no appartus..
"Vanity is defintely my favourite sin"
-Devil's advocate 		 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
11-27-03 00:37
No 473441
       Sorry, no silver platter     

No, you need to experiment to get experimental results. It is impossible to predict all possible energies of all possible transition states to find out the activation energy. 		 
 
 
 
    Chromic
(Synaptic Self-Mutilator)
11-27-03 08:10
No 473476
       activation energy <> heat of formation     

k0dog was just talking about calculating the heat of formation of ketamine and its direct precursor. Presumably he means 1-hydroxycyclopentyl-(o-chlorophenyl)-ketone N-methylimine and ketamine (or maybe he means ketamine hydrochloride and ketamine), but maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

There is a way to calculate the heat of formation of starting material and product, IIRC. Then you can calculate the change of energy... but...

As Rhodium said this doesn't give you activation energies, so it tells you no useful information. Chemistry is more about kinetics (i.e. information about activation energies) than thermodynamics. 		 
 
 
 
    k0dog
(Hive Bee)
11-27-03 13:28
No 473505
       I did.. I did...lol...     

I definetly was talking about 1-hydroxycyclopentyl-(o-chlorophenyl)-ketone N-methylimine.. or as I call it....(rather my chem program...
1-((2-chlorophenyl)(imino)methyl)cyclopentanol

anyways.... I however much it will not help me... want to get the different heats of formation for this compund and ketamine.

If anyone well... has access to a lab that has appartus.. let me know.. maybe we can chat about the "setup".. and such...
"Vanity is defintely my favourite sin"
-Devil's advocate