hypo (Hive Addict) 12-08-03 05:41 No 475424				getting rid of quats?
						having never worked with PTCs, i have to wonder: how does one get rid of PTCs generally and quats (quaternary ammonium salts) in particular, when product and PTC are very lipophilic and distillation is not an option? thx.. patriots are idiots
		java (Hive Bee) 12-08-03 06:25 No 475431				Re: Removing PTC from the ........
						Read this......I hope it sheds some light...java http://www.phasetransfer.com/wwwboard/messages/237.htm Excerpt...."In practice, ion exchange resins are low in volume efficiency which means you must use a lot of resin to separate a little cation. In addition, most commercial ion exchange resins are highly hydrophilic. Thus, unless your product is water soluble, you may have a hard time "swelling" the resin with an organic solution of your product. Ion excahnge resins are most effective when "swelled." also try reading this .... http://www.phasetransfer.com/wwwboard/messages/350.htm Excerpt...."Highly Effective Catalyst Separation - problems removing lipophilic PTCs from organic solvents and reaction products A new process, PTCMemSep, is based on solvent resistant nanofiltration membranes. It separates PT catalyst directly from the product and solvent, at room temperature, without water washing. The process dramatically reduces the work up normally required to separate out PT catalysts such as Aliquat 336 (methyl tricaprylyl ammonium chloride), TOABr (tetraoctyl ammonium bromide), TBABr (tetrabutyl ammonium bromide), and phosphonium salts from solvents such as toluene. Because it works at room temperature, degradation products of PTCs are minimal, and the waste costs associated with catalyst removal and disposal are massively reduced. In fact, the PT catalyst can in many cases be recycled back into the process and used two, three or more times! The process works by retaining the PTC with a solvent resistant nanofiltration membrane, while solvent and product molecules pass through" and at this site there's a good source of info on PTC"S check out the library downloads..... http://www.phasetransfer.com We're  all in this world together, http://www.aztlan.net
		hypo (Hive Addict) 12-08-03 07:49 No 475451				yes,
						that was actually very interesting! unfortunately i possess neither an ion exchanger, nor this easy-to-workup PTC . but this might help: http://www.phasetransfer.com/wwwboard/messages/284.htm patriots are idiots
		hypo (Hive Addict) 12-10-03 01:12 No 475897				what a pain!
						so washing with water, vacuum filtering, filtering the organic phase through celite, drying over Na2SO4, filtering again gave a clear (but small) organic phase. on evaporation it was still full of PTC!! argh! any ideas? patriots are idiots
		java (Hive Bee) 12-10-03 06:12 No 475924				RE: Removing PTC from the reaction product...
						Hypo..If I were you I  would consider writing to the company and ask for a sample of PTCmemSep, as your company is considering using PTC in their process and want a reliable PTC separator. Most companies welcome new business and they will send you a sample....enough for you to do your research......just a thought....java Note: When you get your PTC separator and try it on your research would you inform us on how well it peformed.....or not! We're  all in this world together, http://www.aztlan.net