09-29-04 07:50
No 533726
First, Let me say that I have been using these pages for nearly a year and it has been an UNBEATABLE wealth of info that has improved the quality of life and helped ward off the sandman at my end of the internet connection. Ya'll are some smart people, and you have forgotten more about chemistry than I will ever know. My hat is off to your hard work. Thanks.
I can respect that you are serious about this stuff. So am I. I can further understand the annoyance that you must feel (I am also a forum moderator for an online multi-player game) when you have to answer the same dumbass question over and over again. I feel your pain. But what I don't get is why some seem to get overly upset about it. Case in point, I posted a question that seemed to me to be tastefully asked and I had explained that I had done searches and received info on the subject, but none was relevent to my personal situation. Someone was nice enough to give me a bit of insight on the subject and that was enough to get me started back on the right track and info to inspire a new search that I hadn't thought of. Which was all I really needed. Inspiration and a little direction. I was rewarded with bad karma and a UTFSE rating. On another occasion, I posted a thanks/apology reply to my own thread and recieved an insignifigant rating and a bit more bad karma. I have read other threads that recieved simular ratings and failed to see what inspired the negative ratings. They werent bad questions, and although an seasoned bee could probably entered the right word(s) into the search engine and come up with the answer, that could bee just beecause this is his kitchen! Sure, you might know which drawer the knives are kept in, but a newbee might have to look for hours and might never find them, especially if he is getting conflicting info. How's a NooBee supposed to decifer what is fact and what is fiction if he (she) doesnt ask? I know I have had other questions or simply wanted some support or confirmation that I was going in the right direction, and I didn't ask or make a post for fear of becoming bee flambe'. And as a result, blew the batch and wasted time/money/energy when it was avoidable. What a shame. If you didn't want us wasting your time, why have a newbee forum or let us post at all? Why would you waste your time reading new posts in a thread you had already deemed as insignifigant in the 1st place. I fail to see the harm in all that.
ANYWAYS, what I am seeking is a hive bee that is willing to receive a PM from time to time (Im not saying a flood, not daily nor without purpose or thought) and give his/her thoughts on problems and/or ideas I have. Maybe no more than someone to say that I am on the right path or barking up the wrong tree when I find conflicting or confusing info. I'm not looking for a replacement for the search engine, but a suppliment. Hell, who knows, you might even make a friggin friend. So, if your too busy to help or too important to bee bothered, let me remind you that life is too short to get your panties all in a bunch about trivial things and if shit like this bothers you or makes you angry, dude, step away from the beaker and take a few deep breaths..it ain't that bad.
Peace out.
Here's to peace love and funny colors
(Hive Bee)
09-30-04 04:24
No 533820
P reflects your thought on this...its as if someone gives someone else helpful info,they are going to make 50 tons of the stuff and put them out of business.Whatever.
P has much experience on benzo wacks and borohydride reductions(the 2 best:easiest/foolproof/highyielding ways,P tried them all),helped out a few new bees,dont mind answering q's:usually come here once a week to poke around.
Cheers...where are ya?
...a cunning linguist and a master debater.
(Hive Bee)
09-30-04 06:46
No 533844
But at least you are voicing your concerns I guess.
I myself get quite annoyed (or maybe my pride just takes a little knock...) when my posts have been down-rated, but when looking back at them later I can usually see that the down-rating was justified. Occassionally of course it may be completely out of line and undeserved, but if you are a moderator its probably not too easy to judge and we gots ta allow for that. These guys n girls spend their time working on our mean board, and make it what it is, so if they make the odd bad judgement (or you think they have) just let it go, its no big deal...
Except for unobtainium that is, after his girl left him for the retarded paraplegic next door cause he kept bitching about the milk he has developed a nastry streak... *SWIX waits for post to be down-rated...*
And the UTFSE thing, well thats just fun to do, if you see a shot take it...
***FriedPiper***
I don't have a drug problem! ...I've got heaps.
(Stranger)
09-30-04 08:18
No 533852
I hate to see people so self absorbed that they are making themselves and the folks around them miserable. I feel bad for thier soul,,,so I become thier wake-up call
no harm no foul
As i stated I moderate a forum for an online wwII game called Warbirds, I am also a trainer, and I for one, love to help those just starting. I love to watch the Newbs learning to fly and especially get a high when they "get it". You can almost see the lightbulb go off over their heads. I love it, and because I do, I have answered the same questions over and over again for the past 5 years, and (God willing) will do so for the next 5. Sure, there are some days when it gets old, but the good outweighs the bad tenfold, so I cope on those days.
So, When I was just a wee lad, my Grandpa told me once, he said " get the hell outta that before I beat your ass!" no wait...thats not it....oh yeah!
he said "Never critisize someone elses work if you dont have a way to fix it"
How about assigning a moderator to the Newbee forumn that doesnt mind that sorta thing? Then you wouldnt have to even read this stuff if you dont want too. Maybe you could even restrict strangers to that forum until they make thier quota of posts. Then you wouldnt have them messin with your threads and breakin your rythmn,,,or whatever it is they do to you....if i knew more, i'd apply for the job myself...maybe someday soon...i'm a fast learner and thanks fur the offer pook! I'll be over to pick at yer brain in the near future, i'm sure
Life is a lesson and you'll learn it when your through
(Hive Bee)
09-30-04 08:26
No 533855
ampdup what they hell are you saying, everything a newbee needs to know is already in the sticky posts.
Are you saying that a newbee should be able to ask any stupid newbee question they want and there should be people their to answer these questions... even though the answers are right their infront of them in TFSE!!!
Dont bother telling us your background, because no one cares, and its not going to make the slightest difference in the world.
I know this all sounds harsh but its the truth here.
You want to know something you do the research, like i said its all here, if you cant work it out go and shoot a question then and only after you have done the research first.
Anyone with half a brain should be able to get by doing basic things here without ever having to ask a question.
The next thing you'll know is people will be asking... how do i pour this out of my container and stupid shit like that (sometimes theres enough of that here)
Im not telling you to get fucked, im just saying, do what you gotta do, if your not sure about something, UTFSE, if you cant work it out then ask your question... its really not that hard mate.
Your an individual just like everyone else.
(Stranger)
09-30-04 09:36
No 533866
what I am saying is that it is hard to do a search for info, when you don't know or arent sure exactly what it IS your lookin for. Might be a snap for you, but this is your kitchen. Might take me 4 hours and I might never find what Im lookin for....be nice to ask the question and save 3 hours and 45 minutes. Why have a newbee forum at all, then? Why give strangers the ability to post? Make the stranger title last for X days..whatever. Hey I know...why not just make it a private forum and a read only format, that way you dont have to deal with those pesky questions. I do use TFSE, and people that dont should get the karma they deserve (it will be obvious who's trying and who's not. But my efforts have been rewarded and now have some new friends to PM my questions to, so I guess someone does care (sigh) Hey man, we are all on the same team. And I for one, would be more than willing to moderate a newbee forum if I could...if answering 1 simple fucking question all day long saves some bees eyesight because he was afraid to ask a question because of fear of being flambe' or made to look like an idiot, I would answer that sumbitch with a smile all day long! Oh-oh I guess I should turn my hall pass back into the office before i get detention
i'll type slow so you can sound out the big words
(Guardian)
10-01-04 01:03
No 533970
You will get used to the system here. It may seem a little harsh at first, however it is for the better.
Trust me, when you learn you must learn for life. If someone spells it all out for you, it would be likely that you would rely on that person to spell everything out for you and because of this you would not ever truly learn anything at all. As humans we naturally seek the path of least resistance. I like to use the example of a Quality Control Analyst for a Pharmaceutical company, without a procedure in front of them, they are in the dark (deaf, dumb, and stupid). They are bred to consult a supervisor if any problem arises in an assay, as they can not troubleshoot anything out on their own, because they were conditioned to not be able to think on their own. They do not have any clue of what they are doing, they just follow directions. You do not want to become one of these helpless creatures.
On the other hand if someone like Os flames your ass for being an idiot (in his eyes) I am willing to bet that you will never for as long as you live forget the lesson that was taught through the flaming. When you spend long hours, and hard earned money on a reaction, and it fails, you will probably want to find out what went wrong and do everything in your power to make sure that the reaction never fails again. Someone walking you through it would seldom be able to identify what really went wrong, and if they did you would probably make the same mistake again. You are the only one that can look at the situation and decide what needs to be changed. By doing this you will learn and never forget as the lessons learned have cost you much time and money.
regards,
methyl_ethyl
Unipolar Mania, It's good for life...
(BEE-OTCH)
10-01-04 01:09
No 533972
Thanks and apologies, though well-meant, add nothing useful to the discussion. Thus the insignificant rating. It's pretty much a given that other people know you'll be grateful for whatever information they might share anyway, isn't it?
If you're absolutely compelled to put it in writing, do it in a PM.
Learning is a treasure which accompanies its owner everywhere.
(Guardian)
10-01-04 01:39
No 533975
Might take me 4 hours and I might never find what Im lookin for
That's the point, you might not find what you are looking for, however you would have spent 4 hours learning things that would posssibly cause problems downstream from this point.
regards,
methyl_ethyl
Unipolar Mania, It's good for life...
(Stranger)
10-01-04 04:47
No 533987
SWIM has been visiting these pages for 8-9 months and SWIM has many successes under his belt before making a post. I am not suggesting that things be handed to anyone. SWIM only posted the original message out of frustration. SWIM loooked and looked and posted that, his brain was Lyelocked, and it needed some hot water. He got a UTFSE instead....SWIM wasnt asking for the key to the universe all he needed was a kick in the head to get him goin in the right direction. He didnt even ask for the answer! just a thread w/ the info! Either it is a learner's forum or it isn't. If it is, and nOObees are afraid to ask intelligent and well thought out questions ("what does RP stand for", "where do I find E pills" and other no brainers deserve flamage) then more supplies will go to waste than to good use. If it isn't, then I'll shut up and take my ball and go home. Im not trying to change the world, just taking a stand about things I think are important. Maybe others feel this way and are afraid to say so. Life is too short to take this further than it needs to go. I apologize if I have offended anyone, but I spoke my mind about how I felt, and I am never sorry for that.
Dont mistake kindness for weakness nor Comedy for stupidity
(Stranger)
10-05-04 02:45
No 534516
have you ever gone to the wizards home place do research or flats read up on (addicts)bees post, info at your finger tips but still wish to stay in one place i am years past stranger but do i say anything (read and learn) bee patient some one will mess up and there will bee your answer
(Newbee)
10-05-04 05:40
No 534534
Think about this for a minute and see if you can understand my point.
Say that you want to learn a trade that is potentially hazardous, like a demolition expert on a bomb squad.
Off to school you go, only when you get there, you find that there are no teachers, just a big stack of books on the subject and 1 mean old grumpy Librarian. Now to get the book on the subject you want, you must ask TFSE...ooops, I mean librarian, but because she so mean, you are only allowed to ask 1 or 2 words pertaining to your subject. She then will give you a list of every stinkin book in the library that contains that word. It doesnt matter to her if the book is even about that word or if it is simply spoken out of context in a casual sentence. The word is in that book somewhere, therefore it's on your list. And here's an interesting twist. The books that you are given aren't written by a teacher, they are written by anyone who happens to walk in the door and has an opinion on the matter, so that info you worked so hard to find, may not even be correct. But if it's not right, you'll figure it out when the bomb explodes. What's that you say? You have a problem, but because you don't know what is exactly wrong, you can't figure out what words to tell the librarian? Well, you can ask your fellow students for help, and some may help, but most will just give you a hard time, make you feel stupid, or otherwise discourage you from asking any other silly questions. Damn you for not knowing the answer to a subject you have little or no experience on! You should know the answer before you ask the question! Try ESP or tarot cards next time! Just don't bug them! There are only 2 wires on the bomb you are defusing..you have a 50-50 chance!
Probably wouldn't be many showing up for the 2nd day on the job, think of all the new job oppurtunities a school system like this would create!
All I am saying is it doesn't seem that hard or to just give the person a link to the subject, a word or two to try in TFSE, or (gasp) the answer! Especially when the wrong action could result in bodily harm or lost $$$ in a failure or accident. People shouldnt be made to feel stupid for asking a question, IMHO. It might prevent them from asking an important question that might have saved thier lives! It's not like these chemicals we deal with are safe or stable, nor the equipment failsafe. One would think that a NEWBIE forum might contain a NEWBIE question or two for Christ's sake. The only person who is forced to read these posts is the moderators anyways. So whats the harm in letting a newbee ask questions and letting others respond if they wish?
I found the Hive in a random search and have used it's info to better my understanding of this stuff. I'm not a chemist...didnt even take it in school, so I dont always know what I am looking for, nor do I have the background to tell who is right and who is just blowing smoke out thier ass. I have gained some great knowledge, but at the expense of a few failed experiments because the info wasnt clear or correct. Would have been nice to been able to ask a few questions to validate the info rather than dump $$ down the drain, or end up with this scar on my leg that will be there till they stick me in the ground.
Just try and remember what it was like to not know shit, and lighten up a little....Life's too short, but it can be very very looong if you make a bad decision and end up blind, incarcerated, or lose an arm in a lab explosion
Peace....sorry about the rant.....I'm done, gonna let this thread die now....just think about it
Life is a lesson and you'll learn it when your through
(Stranger)
10-05-04 06:14
No 534536
We do have a bomb joint task force here headed up by Rhod. Along with any bee who notices mistakes. If you make mistakes you will get corrected . But that would be blind faith swim likes sources, facts, and proven experiments . I do concur the UTFSE function isn't always the easist way to find what you need but once you understand the nature of the beast it comes in handy. So until all the people who come to the hive forum learn to UTFSE I have no problem giving people the ability to find the info they seek. We are all here for one purpose that is not to hide away our secrets but make them known for one reason or the other. So everybody learns as they go I have no problem throwing somebody a bone and encourage the practice . If they are not here to advance themselves on there own part and just wasting your time and forum space then I say they can get screwed.
(Newbee)
10-05-04 14:47
No 534587
Someone looking for someone else to do their legwork for them or is flooding the forum with a ton of questions is not trying to better themselves or their hobby/trade, they are lazy, probably too irresponsible to be trusted with such info. Probably end up hurting himself or others. It's fairly obvious to pick them out of the crowd as well.
Here's a thought. As a stranger/newbee you can only begin 1 new thread per day, then your privs are suspended for 24 hours. That might make a bee stop and think REALLY HARD before he wastes his question. Plus, they must take time to word the question, because if they aren't clear, they can't post for a whole day so they have to wait or read (both actually)
Anyways, this issue haunted me at work all day as to why I have been having so much trouble w/ TFSE. I'm a fairly smart person, I am a CPU geek, I use the help menus on other websites no problem, why is this one so hard to get used too?
(cue lightbulb)
There's no index mode or table of contents to suppliment the text search. Most search engines (I know frontpage does) allows you to set up a FAQ like category listing and table of contents, so if you have a rough idea about your problem, you can pinpoint the solution faster, by browsing through the T of Contents, or entering a question or word (simular to your current system) and based on your data base, offers a few sub-categories to refine your search based on what you entered.(edit: wow! what a redundant use of the word "base") A good example is the WindowsXP help and troubleshooting wizard. Just a thought or wishful thinking on my part. If all the data/threads on this site, Erowid and the Rhodium sites have to be sorted manually, that would be a huge, tedious project that would require numerous bees to work 24/7, and totally impractical. I will adapt either with or without a change, I just hate to see someone that is trying their best struggle and/or become frustrated and quit (or worse)
I thank you for your time and appreciate your patience, if you took a moment and gave it some thought, irregardless if you still disagree or whether you can see my point.
Remember where you came from, and focus on where your going, and the world will turn for you.
Wishing you Peace,Love,and Funny Colors....LATER!
Keep on Keepin it Fiction