09-08-00 06:20
No 49880
Hello
I am a Danish foodtechnologist-student with a great love for chemistry. I have tried (legally) all the REASONABLE available recipies on the internet concerning PHE--->Amphetamin. (Catalyst, Electrolysis--) I even made some of my own experiments without any luck. I dont know where to look any more, not even my teacher could help me. Am i looking the wrong place or am i just plain stupid/blind. Imīn close to the conclusion that it cannot be done and that lyceaum is full of crap!!! sorry
You donīt have to cut it out in stones, just wave a little!
You donīt have to put it up here on lycaeum you can mail me privat on sorenhansen.c6@forum.dk
Thanks in advance!!!
God cannot have mercy on the enviroment. BUT YOU CAN!!!
Foodtech. S.H. (DK)
(Newbee / Eraser)
09-08-00 17:11
No 50035
And PHE is ??
(Hive Bee)
09-08-00 19:37
No 50069
I think you are talking about my idea that possiblely phenylalanine could be converted into amphetamine via a mixed Kolbe electrolysis. You have gotten all the information from either my website or Rhodium's website, correct?
Well, I don't know what to tell you. It was just an idea! I have not tryed it. All the literature suggests that some of the product will be amphetamine, but there is not direct reference to this in a literature that i could find. Maybe it doesn't work.... However, you could still be doing something wrong. Write up what you did and I will look it over and see if you committed any errors..
Read my Disclaimer: http://cantsueme.homestead.com
(Hive Bee)
09-09-00 03:57
No 50230
You can only do it multistep.
CO2H -> CH2OH -(H2SO4)-> =CH2 -> CH3
Right?
Share the experiments you did?
(Hive Bee)
09-11-00 00:55
No 50680
I am not an experimentalist. I only do library work...
All my references are listed on the rhodium site as well as on my site. If it doesn't work, I apologize for ever putting the idea into your head, but the references are compelling and I have not reason to beleive that a yield of amphetamine would not result. I do concede that the conversion will not be perfect and that phenylethylamine will be a by-product as well.
I have not recieve any experimental write-ups from this procedure either so I can't tell you that someone has even failed.
Read my Disclaimer: http://cantsueme.homestead.com
(Stranger)
09-11-00 05:38
No 50769
Hello again!
Yes!! Phe = l-phenylalanine
I would very much like to share my experiments with you but my technical English is very bad and it would take me 2 years to write.
Yes. I followed Chem_guys instruction/recipi very precisely. (my teacher and I sad down for 2 hours and translated the wise words (no affence, I think its great what you guys are doing). I used 3 batches, but I had a collaps of some glasware in the first experiment so only 2 went through. The final result did crystalize but there was no amph. present
I might have fucked something up (i donīt think so, but .)
So donīt you feel guilty Chem_guy!, Imīn just an unexperienced student
KrZ did you write the article: Dextroamphetamine from catalytic hydrogenation of l-phenylalanine???
In that experiment you place 500g Phe, 1000ml EtOH, 500ml GAA, 50g Pt/C. in the hydrogenator and prereduced it for 2 hours. Catalysing for 22 hours and so one--- You end up extracting with 4*200ml of DCM. What is DCM?? Later one you disolve the base in IPA . What is IPA??
Well i did something very like this!! (in 10g scale) I used 3 batches for this experiment and ended up with no amph. in all 3, here i varied the hydrogenation time 20 - 30 - 48 hours (5 - 6 - 7 ATM)
The reason why i failed might depend one I used the wrong chemical to extract with and disolve in (DCM, IPA)!!!!! Or maybe it canīt be done this way.!!
KrZ!! what do you mean by multistep, can you specify that a little more!!
I was only allowed to buy 100g of Phe >>its illegal in DK<< Fuck!!!!! I decided to run 10g batches
I have got 20g Phe left and i HAVE to succeed WHAT am i going to do, PLEASE give me a hint. I hate starting something i canīt finish!!!
Bye the way, in the main menu under Natural amphetamine precursors look under l-Phenylalanine, WHY the f does it say SWIM KNOWS SWIM KNOWS!!! What is it SWIM knows???? That it canīt be done or there is a VERY easy way to do the synthetic so they have to hide it????? I think itīs the last answer!!! It wouldnīt surprise me if you donīt have to use Catalyst or Electrolysis.
God cannot have mercy on the enviroment. BUT YOU CAN!!!
Foodtech. S.H. (DK)
(Stranger)
09-11-00 17:19
No 50948
I don't have the exact reference with me now, but check out the last few issues of
JOC. Sometime this summer (2000) a nice paper was published giving a method for
the conversion of CO2H -> CH3. It so happens then make amphetamine out of
PHE (I hope they have a DEA license for that!). Basically they go CO2H -> CH2OH
-> CH2I -> CH3.
Neat paper.
(Moderator)
09-11-00 19:29
No 50982
IPA = isopropylic alcohol
DCM = dichloromethane
SWIM = someone who is not me
GAA = glacial acetic acid
There is another route from phenylalanine to amphetamine:
The alpha-methylation of imine-protected amino acids under PTC (phase transfer catalysis) conditions and the subsequent decarboxylation.
Look under
Lilienthal's Pharmacological and Chemical References (http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/sto
and under 'Trp decarboxylation' for amino acid decarboxylations under +/- mild conditions using higher boiling ketones as catalysts (#44, #45). This decarboxylation usually yields a racemic product.
Why don't you want to use the most simple route via condensation of benzaldehyde + nitroethane and subsequent alanate (LiAlH4) reduction?
For a stereoselective route look into Tet. Asym. 4: 1619 (1993)
(Moderator)
09-12-00 13:17
No 51292
For the conversion of tryptophan to alpha-methyl-tryptamine look on my page under #42.
I can't find the 'JOC' paper from this year at the moment, but maybe I will find it tomorrow. This reference has also been posted at the Hive (maybe at the old board).
I hope this helps
(Hive Bee)
09-13-00 18:54
No 51725
Are you suggesting that a decarb. of phenylalanine to phenethylamine, then a magically transform (magically because i don't know how) into the imine (C6H5-CH2CH=NH).
Then the imine reacts and adds a methyl group on the terminal carbon?
How does someone make an amine into an imine?
I might try a grignard route from the imine to the methyl carbon addition:
R-CH=NH (aq) + CH3MgX --> R-CH2(NH2)-CH3 + MgXOH
In the same vein I posted a varition on the commonly used clandestine approach to a Henry condensation, using phenethylnitro instead of benzaldehyde.
C6H5-CH2CH2NO2 + H(C=O)H --> C6H5-CH=C(NO2)-CH3 --{H2}--> C6H5-CH2CH2(NH2)-CH3
Read my Disclaimer: http://cantsueme.homestead.com
(Stranger)
09-15-00 04:52
No 52300
Reduce the phenylalanine to the aminoalcohol using sodium borohydride and either sulfuric acid or I2 in tetrahydrofuran. Then find a way to reduce the alcohol. Methamphetamine can even be made through this route because the reduction step also reduces acyl amides. I have references specifically detailing the the reduction of phenylalanine and N-formylphenylalanine to the aminoalcohol and N-methyl-aminoalcohol. Just ask.
No references for the direct reduction of the aminoalcohol to the desired amphetamine, but the established methods of ephedrine reduction should work. Sorry.
--PK
(Hive Bee)
09-15-00 19:29
No 52471
Only the iodine reduction will work for the alcohol reduction after the reduction of the acid group on phenylalanine to -CH2OH. A Birch reduction only reduces an aromatic and the subsequent results is a esult of decomposition, such as benyl alcohol reduction, benzyl ether cleavage,...
Read my Disclaimer: http://cantsueme.homestead.com
(Stranger)
09-16-00 19:22
No 52683
Here is that JOC reference:
"Efficient Procedure for the Reduction of a-amino acids to Enantiomerically Pure a-Methylamines"
Quagliato, D.A. et. al., J. Org. Chem, 2000, v.65, 5037-5042
Summary:
R-CO2H -> R-CH2-OH using LiBH4/TMSCl
R-CH2-OH -> R-CH2-I using polymer supported Ph3P + I2
R-CH2-I -> R-CH3 using N-Selectride
Excellent paper, good discussion on the development of the methodology. Their optimizations were carried out with both enantiomers of phenylalanine, and they got no detectable racemization. Not exactly kitchen chemistry, but an interesting read.
(Stranger)
09-18-00 19:55
No 53171
Although interesting, that is not the paper that I was referring to.
The ones I have are as follows:
JOC 1993, 58, 3568-3571 (NaBH4 & I2)
Tetrahedron Letters Vol. 33, No. 38, pp.5517-5518, 1992 (NaBH4 & H2SO4)
Sorry.
--PK
(Stranger)
03-20-01 12:25
No 179281
Would there be other methods for reduction of the aminoalcohol other than using sodium borohydride?
(Hive Bee)
03-21-01 17:59
No 179537
How does one produce the imine?
I was thinking that one could add a methyl group to the acidic hydrogen on the alpha carbon by first an addition of formaldehyde forming an imine.
C6H5CH2CH(NH2)COOH + HCOH --> C6H6CH2CH(N=CH2)COOH
C6H5CH2CH(N=CH2)COOH + PTC and MeX --> C6H5CH2CH(N=CH2)COOH --(decarboxylation)--> --(hydrogenation)--> C6H5CH2CH(NHCH3)CH3
(Newbee / Eraser)
04-06-01 07:11
No 182540
what would we be looking at if we hit phenylalanine with LiAlH4?
"pull the wool over your own eyes"
(Chief Bee)
04-07-01 18:55
No 182685
Phenylalaninol, where the phenylalanine -COOH group has been reduced to -CH2OH.
http://rhodium.lycaeum.org
(Newbee / Eraser)
04-09-01 03:30
No 182988
so what should we do about that OH group? any further elaborations on -CO2H > -CH2OH > -CH2I > -CH3? Ph3P is not in the arsenal; any other suggestions?
eli3
"pull the wool over your own eyes"
(Chief Bee)
04-10-01 13:32
No 183266
Proven ways of reducing COOH to CH2OH include LAH, NaBH4/I2, NaBH4/methyl sulfate and NaBH4/H2SO4.
A proven way from CH2OH to CH3 is chlorination with SOCl2 (or other halogenation method) and reduction with LAH. It should be possible to reduce the alcohol with HI/RP too, but as the alcohol isn't benzylic, it might require a little more work than ephedrine reduction.
http://rhodium.lycaeum.org