07-12-02 15:21
No 331843
Okay so if someone were to currently be using a ball mill combined with a V type mixer and a 4T press with a number of differnt die sets ect. What would be the propewr method to go about production of a tablet containing 5meo-dipt.
The problem that is faced is the smal amount or active ingredient vs. the total size of the tablet. I can go down to 5mm, and use binders, ect for the rest, but I am concearned about proper mixing of a 10mg dosage unit is a 100mg tablet, the margin for mis mixing is too large for saftey and also for quality control of the product, too much or too little.
Fluid bed granulation seems to be an attractive method for mixing and dispersal of the tryptamine, but then again fluid bed granulation machines are a little out of the old price range for an experiment at $15,000, if I knew for a fact I could hold a +/-1mg tolerance with that sort of mixing I would go for it, but. . .
A large scale production of 5meo-Dipt seems to be in order, however this problem evades me.
I have also considered using many very small gel capsules, but then again the price for a filling machine is close to $15,000, seems a bit wasteful with a lab full of tableting equipment. With a production goal of 100,000 tablets hand measuring is out of the question.
Ideas would be helpful, perhaps if we can get the method down for 5meo-dipt 5meo-amt at a 3-5mg dosage could also be accomplished, or any of the other low dosage types of tryptamines.
Cyril
So you need a precursor to a pecursor, just to make a precursor
(Distinctive Doe)
07-12-02 15:34
No 331849
In all honesty I don't think its really a commodity drug that people are interested in injesting in large quantities.
Maybe it just me?
I'd rather eat some mushrooms
Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
(Stranger)
07-12-02 15:42
No 331852
It howvere is highly cost effective, and if you have established channels to distribute it through, a little here a little there, a little everywhere, then you can make a substantial profit, I would admit it wouldn't be my first product of choice for production, but when you need to just add to the menue eventually this idea comes up. If I had a spare ounce of crystal LSD around or for that matter a way to get it I would gladly spend all my time on that. You see what I am saying eventually you can only produce so much of this or that and you start to think about press down time, and what you could do with it, especially if it involves multiple presses, you satrt to think at 9,000 tablets an hour, with 3 presses not running you are down 27,000 tablets an hour, but eventually with only one or two products you max out your distribution network, and then you wonder, what if. . . .
Cyril
Sometimes I miss just trying to get high.
So you need a precursor to a pecursor, just to make a precursor
(Hive Addict)
07-12-02 16:49
No 331876
If you think drugs are just another way to make a buck, you haven't had enough drugs.
(Stranger)
07-12-02 18:25
No 331899
Not that I need to explain this, but for myself I would gladly enjoy the alter states of conciousness and the fun have had with an entire plethora of chemicals; I personally also would skip even having to make money or having to spend it for that matter, however in this world we aquire debts, and sometimes the ppl we have to pay off just have us work for them instead. . . and if for them drugs are just another way to make a buck then you have to take that approach too.
Cy
PS I never learned anything I know, to learn to make money, I learned how to do it becuase it is what I enjoy to do, but as situations demand you have to extend your knowledge to them.
So you need a precursor to a pecursor, just to make a precursor
(Hive Addict)
07-12-02 18:34
No 331905
swim doesnt bee-lieve that foxy is a very marketable substance. Out of twenty to thirty friends who have tried it, all too often swim hears "what the fuck man... I dont feel nuthin'" - freakin idiots never listen to swim when he tells 'em that if theyve been drinking alot, the effects will bee dulled (or that they'll end up burping up puke like a baby). Swim doesnt suggest sales, but if he did- he'd tell whomever to stick with the tried and true if they are looking for money. Especially when dealing with 'research' chems. They call 'em that for a reason. How much study has been put into finding their toxicity? Long term effects?
Beesides, your gonna ruin swims ability to 'research' in the process. Then swims gonna bee forced to track you down and beat you with his prostheic leg.
when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.
(Distinctive Doe)
07-12-02 18:53
No 331918
Beesides, your gonna ruin swims ability to 'research' in the process. Then swims gonna bee forced to track you down and beat you with his prostheic leg.
Don't fuck everyone else over. Bee a real drug dealer and sell something illegal!!!
Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
(Stranger)
07-12-02 19:03
No 331922
Well I may agree with you about the 5meo-dipt, but what about TFMPP/BZP combo pill. Thats the other choice.
Cy
So you need a precursor to a pecursor, just to make a precursor
(Hive Addict)
07-12-02 19:10
No 331924
why dont swiy get off his stinky little bottom and learn a few synths. MDMA or meth could probably pay for swiys speech therapy classes, plus put a little spending money in his pocket. If swiy got the money up for a press or tableting machine...and safely procured said items, he MUST have some ingenuity and some drive. USE IT! Dont bee a lazy ass and fuck things up for your fellow bee's.
when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.
(Hive Bee)
07-12-02 20:37
No 331946
Selling research chems is very very hard. My neighbor has a pet turtle who got 20 pressed tabs of a research chem and tried to sell them. Nobody wants them. Some people will try them with you but even they won't buy them. Just get the idea out of your head and save yourself a lot of trouble.
Better loving through chemistry.
(Hive Bee / Eraser)
07-13-02 10:08
No 332097
Not only would this either be unethical or unprofitable (depending on swiy's representation of the product)-- but on top of that, tableting has nothing to do with tryptamine Chemistry.
stop, drop & roll
(Stranger)
07-13-02 10:12
No 332098
Mucshrooms hav ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with TRYPTAMINE chemistry yet they keep finding thier way in this forum. . . .
Cy
So you need a precursor to a pecursor, just to make a precursor
(Hive Addict)
07-13-02 10:36
No 332103
Bollocks. The main psychoactive component in mushrooms is pcylocibin, which is a tryptamine.
And don't try to weasle your way out of your post. There's a difference between `trying to get the cost of $400 for a gram of 5-meodipt' back, and `making 27.000 pills per hour'.
(Hive Addict)
07-13-02 11:26
No 332120
$400 for a gram of foxy is quite expensive...swim has seen it for $150. 7mg's from this source produces a very pleasant research experiance......
i FEEL funny.
(Hive Addict)
07-13-02 12:02
No 332133
Sorry, I didn't bother to look up the current price for 5meo-dipt. But my point still stands: even if you have to spend $200 for 1 g of foxy, that means about $2-$4 per dosage. That's comparable to buying somebody a drink.
(Hive Bee)
07-13-02 17:53
No 332250
mushrooms have EVERYTHING to do with tryptamine chemistry. i would also suggest you save your time and money on tableting your 5-meo-dipt. the public would be very hard to sell on 5-meo-dipt. just my personal opinion from accidentily spilling some on my dinner that i was eating in the lab. i realized what i had done afterwards. i use this as an example of bad lab practice that no one should follow
. don't even sell it as something it isn't if you do tablet it. just trying to save you some time and energy. wow a production goal of 100,000 tablets. unless you already have a distribution system set up, i'd suggest stop now because there is no way any large scale distribution organization is going to let you in with 5-meo-dipt. it just doesn't have the capacity to get that big with the competition of other drugs.A.D.I.D.A.R.
(Hive Addict)
07-13-02 18:59
No 332272
Max,
as your lawyer, I reccomend you take 7mg of foxy and lock yourself in the bedroom with the missus.
VERY VERY VERY pro-sexual drug. Moreso than GHB. Although the drip is nasty as hell, swim finds much less bodyload if he doesnt put the stuff in his stomach.
i FEEL funny.
(Chief Bee)
07-14-02 15:53
No 332534
"...I had weighed correctly, I simply picked up the wrong vial..." - Pihkal #20
(Stranger)
07-15-02 22:29
No 333141
Is there any legal tryptamine that people would like as much as acid or 'e'?
(Newbee)
07-16-02 18:07
No 333408
It's the ability for it to be sold in bulk at a large level with a large profit margin available for each level and allows for even the end users to have a price that allows for small qtys ie 10 or 100 tablets to be sold for profit. This is true of both acid an extasy. With a large profit margin at all levels of transfer bulk whole sale, whole sale, commercial bulk, commercial, street level. This is what we need, and in the lab easy and cheap enough production of the "legal" chem.
It's all about the pricing structure, not what ppl like.
Cy
So you need a precursor to a pecursor, just to make a precursor thats what the people told me . . .
(Hive Addict)
07-16-02 19:37
No 333451
Swim has to disagree. Ya dont see people selling datura and making big bucks do you? What about ayahuasca? Certain drugs lack mass appeal (good thing too). Its kind of like a restaurant that caters to a certain delicacy, there is a SMALL percentage of the population that actually likes to try new things, and from that SMALL percentage, there will bee the ones who actually like the food, and from that SMALL percentage will bee the main consumers of said product/food who are actuallt 'into it' enough to eat it on a regular basis.
Combine that 'axiom' with a drug that gives verying effects and you have yourself a poor candidate.
Swim'll say it again, get off the hiney and learn a synth or two...It'll pay you back, probably much more than you anticipate. Selling 'legal' research chems for ingestion is illegal and you WILL find yourself consumed by the vagueness of the law...analogue act..conspiracy etc... they can still fuck you, and believe me, they will! All it takes is for a few retards to get caught selling them, or having them on their person for a routine traffic stop, and then the ball will bee set in motion (I beelieve it already is if you stop and look at what happened to JLF on sept 11, the OTHER terrorist attack on America by its own government)
Swim is pleading with you, he enjoys 'research', please dont ruin it for him. If you must sell them, do it through a legal venue- you seem to have some intelligent ideas (regarding the PM)- go the legal route!
i FEEL funny.
(Hive Bee)
07-17-02 00:18
No 333529
Cl's had significant experience with this, once at 18 mgs and others in 7-13 mg range...
Max, take something in the range god suggests, wait an hour and then have fun with missmax... Whatever you focus on, is enhanced... otherwise, it's boring...there is a compartmentalization of your experience that does not lend to introspection or expanded conciousness, just a drill down experience...
However, when what you are drilling into is a sweet warm pussy, then every nuance, fold, tingling sensation has a 10-50x sensitivity and connection... you'll really LIKE that one... all the erogenous zones are hyper available...
The grand wizard suggested 4mgs to me as a nice prelim to excellent sex...which cuts the length down to a manageable 4-5 hours..
Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
(Hive Bee)
07-17-02 12:16
No 333721
I don't think St. cyril read the case of these three guys a few months ago, in North Carolina, I think, ones already plead out for selling 5meo-dipt, guy who plead out took a 5meo-dipt tab right in front undercover dispelling any deniability that it WASN'T for CONSUMPTION. and as research chemical NOT for consumption, that's is the ONLY possible legal way to sell it. So, hmm wonder how far that "I'm only selling this to you with the understanding that you will not consume it, will go"? Forget how much time he's getting but he's going to PRISON, not the county jail.
(Newbee)
07-17-02 12:56
No 333742
Okay if it was a person's bussiness to be making and distributing illict or non illicit chemicals then the choice if the popularity, distribution channels, ect existed would be to sell them via a route with the least legal resistance. If in this scenario you were talking about millions of tablets you would not be concearned with the "catching on" or them "figuring it out." In this case you would already have lawyers and you would confer with them the best way to go about walking the legal line. Here is the answer.
Okay research chemicals are NOT called research chems becvause they are for research use or anything like that. They are called research chemicals beacuase of a loop whole in the fedral analouge act which states that said analogs of illeagle chemicals which are solely for research purposes and not human consumption (ie JF's disclamer) will still be unregulated/controlled chemicals. The only way that they become illeagle are when they are sold for human consumption, or sold as something they aren't. Most states have a law which allows for equal punishment for selling a fake drug as something else. So in powder form it is not illeagel. Now if you could show conspiracy to distribute for human consumption, then there would be your first charge. Look into what might be a good cover, file for a CORPORATION, and use it to purchase and OWN the compounds. It is difficult to go after a cor[poration in court for owning a legal compound, and difficult to show illeagle intent just by ownership, from there carry on with it as if it were a 100% illict drug. Okay so now you get busted with 500,000 tablets of TFMPP, okay so who is coming after you, THE FDAl, as long as that same good lawyer that you talked to before is your lawyer on court then you have to face a charge which is a GROSS MISDOMEANOR with a max PRISON scentence of 3 years.
Okay so I said before your bussiness is already manufacture and sale of illict chemicals, all the infrastructure is already in place, ect. So now you have a choice between a 10 year minimum scentence for your 500,000 tablets of MDMA, with 30 years likely and a lareg $1,000,000 fine. Or your are caught with your 500,000 TFMPP tablets and get MAX 3 years abd MAX a $250,000 fine. I'll go down for three years to sell a million tablets of TFMMP, but I don't know about 30. For a profit margin with of $60,000 per Kg of TFMPP, I would rather manufacture and have the smaller risk, for the profit, a million ablets of TFMPP costs at bulk about $9,000, and sells for about $600,000. Now if you already have distribution chanels that are gaurenteed, you tell me what makes more sense, synthing out 10Kg of MDMA, or just spendng $9,000, when either make you about $600,000 per run. I think the answere is obvious. Additionally if you have had to make large productions of illict chemicals before then you would know it is alot nicer to pay someone else to do it.
I would gladly pay for a state of the art lab and for a chemist to make good pay, but at $9,000 cost to a $600,000 profit you can see why this would be a primary concearn.
Cy
So you need a precursor to a pecursor, just to make a precursor thats what the people told me . . .
(Hive Addict)
07-17-02 14:01
No 333777
You have valid points, sure, swim would rather bee caught selling Foxy over MDMA. But essentially, whats going to happen (already in motion) is that this loop-hole that allows the research chems to bee sold legally will become just as illegal at a much faster rate.
Arent those BZP's rather toxic anyway? Swim has yet to 'research' them. It'd bee a shame if YOU fuck that up for him, because then he'd have a suitable target for his petty wrath
edit:
clearlight, swim hears what your saying about the errogenous zones, swim had some girl sucking on the inside of his thigh - close to his knee, and he almost came right then and there! Very uncharacteristic for swim who sees himself as having alot of control/staying power in that realm.
i FEEL funny.
(Hive Bee)
07-20-02 23:12
No 335391
http://www.pilotonline.com/news/nw0319dr
http://www.pilotonline.com/news/nw0402fo
http://www.pilotonline.com/breaking/br07
with regards to large scale foxy sales...
problem is research chemicals are inconsistent with regards
individual response, and that was these guys undoing.
catseye
(Hive Bee)
07-21-02 01:18
No 335419
Foxy is completely boring... what a waste of time... to make all of this and then get busted...
Don't waste your time tableting this material, it's not even worth doing... sure, might be nice for 20 minutes, but read what shulgin said in tihkal... boring...
Infinite Radiant Light - THKRA
(Stranger)
07-23-02 08:41
No 336144
He made some good points. Take everyone's advice and don't press anymore foxy. A pressed foxy pill with an alien imprint was on page 3 of "USA Today" today!
However, Shulgin mentions in "Controlled Substances" that DOET was unscheduled at the time he wrote "Controlled Substances" (early '90's I think). Of course you don't have a chance in hell of getting away with pressing DOET 'legally' because it is an "amphetamine." However, might it bee time to declare 2C-E a 'research chemical'?
Hmmmmmmmmm......
(Distinctive Doe)
07-23-02 10:42
No 336171
Research chemicals will all bee illegal in short order
Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
(Hive Addict)
07-23-02 11:20
No 336179
> However, might it bee time to declare 2C-E a 'research chemical'?
Great idea. I can't wait for the reports on erowid of morons getting off on 30+ mg's of snorted 2C-E.
(Hive Bee)
07-23-02 14:39
No 336233
Put 3mg of 2C-E in the pills and sell them for $30 with no breaks. Put a warning label on the package saying how much not to do within a certain period of time and what drugs not to mix it with. Warn them not to give it to psychedelically naive users or to take it in unfamiliar set or settings. Stress that no drug taking is without side effects or risk, especially taking mind-altering ones.
Beyond that, it's basically survival of the fittest, is it not?
Better yet, don't press anything at all or sell it.
(Distinctive Doe)
07-23-02 15:27
No 336260
Why is it our job to prevent morons from being morons?
Its better if they eliminate themselves from the gene pool before they have a chance to reproduce IMHO.
Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
(Hive Addict)
07-23-02 16:30
No 336273
Actually, I agree with that. It's also the consequence of drug legalization: You agree that you lose some people who do stupid things like overdosing and not respecting set/setting. You might also lose a few people who are surprised by their own sensitivity. Pro-legalization lobbyist would argue that each weekend more people are killed by alcohol, cars, and the combination thereof.
OTOH: you could see `research chemicals' as an example of what happens if you have a legalized market for a selected number of psychoactive drugs. And then you see that some drugs *can* kill. And that a small, but loud group of people won't behave themselves, even if you have good, detailed instructions.
It's nothing new. But if you want to go for legalization, it's something you should remember.