blunts (Stranger)
08-13-03 07:57
No 453254
       4-methoxy indole to 4-ho-dmt     

swim was wondering if its possible/feasable to get some psilocybin from 4-meo-indole.  sorry swim doesnt have too much chemistry experience (classes start in a few weeks :))  any help or info would be appreciated 		 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
08-13-03 14:27
No 453303
       4-MeO-Indole demethylation     

I think 4-MeO-Indole derivatives can be demethylated using buffered boron tribromide, but I'm not sure. I can say as much as it is not an easy transformation. 		 
 
 
 
    blunts
(Stranger)
08-14-03 07:47
No 453476
       what else..     

anyone know what else 4-methoxy indole could be used as a precursor for? 		 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
08-14-03 12:24
No 453507
       Any 4-Methoxy-tryptamine, such as 4-MeO-MIPT     

Any 4-Methoxy-tryptamine, such as 4-MeO-MIPT (http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal39.shtml) 		 
 
 
 
    pHarmacist
(pHantasticant)
08-22-03 14:43
No 455025
       de-O-methylation     

swim was wondering if its possible/feasable to get some psilocybin from 4-meo-indole.

There is an old route to Serotonin where they preform de-O-methylation using AlCl3. For experimental details turn your attention to:

Abramovich, R. A and Shapiro, D., J. Chem. Soc., 1956, 4589; Henecka, H., Timmler, H., Lorenz, R., and Geiger, W., Chem.Ber., 1957, 90, 1060

I can't see why they start with p-methoxy-phenylhydrazone, a number of other counterparts that are easier to get rid of would give better yield in the last step..
Do NOT disturb: Mind at Large 		 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
08-22-03 20:11
No 455051
       O-protection     

What O-protection groups (avaliable in the fifties), which also survives the initial aniline diazotization to the phenylhydrazine, followed by the Fischer Indole Synthesis, can you think of?

There is always benzyl, but maybe they didn't have access to high-pressure catalytic hydrogenation in that lab (CTH wasn't invented yet). 		 
 
 
 
    Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
08-22-03 22:23
No 455063
       The Discovery of Catalytic Transfer Hydrogenation
(Rated as: excellent) 		    

Well, the first Catalytic Transfer Hydrogenation was reported in the literature only 50 years ago:

"In 1952, Braude, Linstead, et al. reported the striking discovery that ethylenic
and acetylenic linkages could be reduced in high yield and purity by refluxing with
cyclohexene in tetrahydrofuran at 65°C in the presence of palladium black."

"[They] made the suggestion that catalytic hydrogen transfer from an organic
donor molecule to a variety of organic acceptors might be possible under mild
conditions. In fact, sporadic use had been made in the past of unsaturated
compounds as hydrogen acceptors in catalytic dehydrogenation reactions.
However, few systematic studies were directed toward the reverse process,
catalytic transfer hydrogenation."

Cited from:

Catalytic Transfer Hydrogenation (Review)
Gottfried Brieger, Terry J. Nestrick
Chem. Rev. 74, 567-580 (1974) (../rhodium/pdf /cth.review.pdf)

Edit: Hmm, it seems like the question I answered disappeared meanwhile... Oh well, it doesn't matter, this is interesting anyway smile

Also, here is a related review article of interest:

Heterogeneous Catalytic Transfer Hydrogenation (Review)
R.A.W. Johnstone, A.H. Wilby, I.D. Entwistle
Chem. Rev. 85, 129-170 (1985) (../rhodium/pdf /heterogenous.cth.review.pdf) 		 
 
 
 
    pHarmacist
(pHantasticant)
08-22-03 22:26
No 455064
       Great...     

Thanks for the info. I deleted my post as I thought no one would answer my question...

EDIT: The question was: "Oh, no kidding, so when did CTH came about?"
Do NOT disturb: Mind at Large 		 
 
 
 
    pHarmacist
(pHantasticant)
08-29-03 09:57
No 456318
       hey, blunts     

See the last step (Scheme 1): Post 456207 (pHarmacist: "Labelled indolealkylamines for brain mapping", Tryptamine Chemistry)

Good luck!
Point... Counter Point...