09-14-03 23:17
No 459070
Swim was wondering ig 5-MeO-DiPT could by synthesized in the following manner:
1) Melatonin was refluxed in IPA with excess NaOH for 3-6 Hours, ala Rhodium's synthesis of mexamine, only the reductone was excluded, as swim does not understand why its presence is necessary and no-one will answer swim's questions as to why :(. It's a reducing agent, correct? But the amine-group shouldn't reduce to a nitro that easily, or? Should I be worried about a polymerization reaction?
2) In a larger reaction tub red phosphorus was dissolved into a solution of IPA and iodine (derived from exposing the ionic form to H2O2). This reaction was allowed to commence (It was inspired by Vogel's method, however, the glassware has been simplified and the Isopropyl iodide is simply allowed to be generated in-situ). The then neutralized mexamine generated in step 1 was then added to solution and kept undert reflux for eight hours.
3) The 5-MeO-DiPT was extracted using a standard acid/base extraction. Depending on how red it looks, it could be recrystallized....
Does this sound like a good synthesis?
(Hive Bee)
09-15-03 16:58
No 459197
Does this sound like a good synthesis?
No, man, no!
It is FAR from being as simple as you currently think it is.
1. An amine group reduced to a nitro group ???? NaOH a reducing agent ????
Go back to the newbee forum! You have still a lot to learn.
2. Your in situ isopropyl iodide scheme sounds rather fishy and I doubt that it will work. Is it so hard for you to prepare and distill it first? I'll bet you my 8-year old cousin could do it.
3. Kept refluxing in what??? I doubt that IPA will work, I guess you'll need sulfolane or something similar, perhaps DMSO, or you will get chiefly 5-MeO-N-isopropyltryptamine.
4. If you don't take good care of purifying each reagent you need for each step, you are likely to end up with useless black tars instead of a red oil.
My question: I've read that sulfolane is a selective solvent for liquid-vapor extractions, I guess that's the reason that it is used for (relatively) low boiling isopropyl iodide, which will be mainly present as vapor at that temperature.
So I don't know if it would be wise to substitute DMSO for this?
A Dream Within A Dream (http://www.poedecoder.com/Qrisse/works/
(Hive Bee)
09-15-03 18:34
No 459208
NaOH a reducing agent ????
I think he is referring to sodium dithionite. See ../rhodium /mexamin
fear fear hate hate
(Hive Bee)
09-15-03 23:00
No 459265
I haven't been able to find anything on this, but my gut feeling would be that perhaps the compound is sensitive to oxidative decomposition?
We already know that at least some pure tryptamines turn yellow and decompose quite fast if exposed to air for some time.
A Dream Within A Dream (http://www.poedecoder.com/Qrisse/works/
(Hive Bee)
09-16-03 07:38
No 459365
I thought so too. Interesting detail nevertheless. Let's make sure this thread can be found using TFSE, even if it is only a detail. Melatonin, hydrolysis, mexamine, 5-methoxytryptamine, sodium dithionite.
fear fear hate hate
(Moderator)
09-16-03 11:40
No 459380
Sodium dithionite in that reaction seems to be used as an anti-oxidant. The amount used seems to be too low for it to participate in the main reaction.
(Stranger)
09-16-03 17:47
No 459410
First of, yes, reductone=sodium dithionite (www.chemfinder.com) and swim did assume that it was a reducing agent, swim merely assumed the amino group would decompose too slowly for it to matter. Your experience shows swims assumption was wrong.
Also, swim fails to see why a level of purification would be necessary, as after the first step he has a saline solution of IPA (neutralized) and mexamine (or if swim excludes the dithionite a nitro version thereof AKA worthless), and swim knows that isopropyl iodide exists in the other IPA solution, so why should swim need to seperate them? Again, more product is lost to the nitro form as swim continues to reflux and any unreact melatonin may gain an isopropyl group (unlikely, due to steric hindrance), it should react. Swim never said it was a clean synthesis, but all the components are there. The salts shouldn't interfer with the reaction, and the solvents are the same (IPA and IPA, not that it makes a lot of difference).
Anyway, assuming swim seperates out the mexamine once he gets his hands on some dithionite (easily done) and distills of the isopropyl iodide, could swim add those two and reflux the mexamine in isopropyl iodide? Not much more difficult.
(Stranger)
09-16-03 18:31
No 459418
First off, swim would like to thank you all for your help. This has proven most enlightening.
However, swim was also wondering if the mexamine could be added to methyl iodide and allowed to react for an hour or so then seperated and refluxed with ethanolamine to yeild 5-MeO-DMT?
(Hive Bee)
09-18-03 10:42
No 459729
If you are going to wager (Very Expensive) melatonin then at least do it right.
First you need to reduce your melatonin to Mexamine. Follow the procedure at Rhodium's with Sodium Dithionite. This shit is cheap as hell!!.
Secondly you can use the PURIFIED Mexamine (purified by vac distillation or at the very least a good A/B or two) with Isopropyl iodide (also distilled, don't be lazy) to obtain 5Meo-DIPT or use the Formaldehyde/NaBH4 at rhodium's for 5Meo-DMT.
Don't be a dumbass dude...... Rather give me the melatonin, I know what to do with it. All these procedures are well described at Rhodium so that inexperienced chemists don't need to figure it all out for themselves.
I assume you want to ingest some of this product so......
DO NOT MODIFY PROCEDURES IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT'S CUTTING IN CHEMISTRY!!
Safe cooking dude!
(Moderator)
09-18-03 17:15
No 459770
The first step from melatonin to 5-methoxy-tryptamine (mexamine) is a hydrolysis, not a reduction.