04-18-04 05:08
No 501462
Okai, down here in australia, as most of youse know, TCE is non exsitent and JD is also no where to be found... great for us australians, Best method of extraction is gone, so what can we do. Well im posting this and i want to know if you think this will work okai, mind you the pills contain pseudo sulfate.
Mineral turp for 12 hours
Xylene boil times 3
Acetone boil times 3
Pill mass dried
Methylated Spirits used to Pull Pseudo
Once Metho is evaped what is left is disolved in Dh20
Water is fine filtered
Water is A/B
My concern is, since swim is using Sulfate will everything still work okai?
(Hive Addict)
04-18-04 18:20
No 501528
after the a/b you wont bee using sulfate you nut
XXXX brake & parts cleaner contains
700g/kg tetrachloroethyene
XXXX brake cleaner contains perchchloroethylene
some bee will post where to get jap drier, i forgot, its here some where, could do with a memory check myself
also what pils are you using mate?
pm moi,
FEAR MY GEAR
epistemologicide
signed -nous
http://www.counterorder.com
(Hive Bee)
04-18-04 20:20
No 501547
>>"Methylated Spirits used to Pull Pseudo"
This will not work.
According to ../rhodium/worlock/extractep
"..the sulfate salt is only sparingly soluble in alcohol, so it must be extracted with water"
If this is the case, you may actually bee able to do a metho boil to remove gakk (???)
I would like to see a collection of links to posts containing information about aussie pills/reagents/chemicals etc.
I remember reading a while ago, an ausbee was doing a waterless a/b on some 1.2gm sulfate boxes and averaging 1gm pseudo per box (obviously doing more than 1 box at a time). AFAIK you can get some of the sulfate pills no ID.
The procedure was something like:
boil 3x acetone
mix PM with equal amt of sodi carbonate
add np. add metho to activate sodium carb
filter off np and boil the alc out that has disolved in there
gas for hcl.
Might try this myself one day, while im sleeping
TSFE has been closed but ill have a look for that post when its back on..
Twinlke twinkle little speed, you and air are all I need
(Stranger)
04-18-04 22:14
No 501562
I know after the a/b i wont be using sulfate, when i said im using sulfate i meant the pills i am using contain pseudo sulfate.
jemma jamerson are you saying that TCE and JD ARE available in australia? because i cant find any and have been told by store owners that TCE is now banned. If there are sources in australia and someone could point it out to me i would be very gratefull.
The pills i am using are 24 hour, they come with 7 tablets, each tablet contains 240mg of pseudo sulfate and 10mg of Loratadine.
"All you have to do to converat from Sodium Bicarbonate (simple baking soda) into Sodium Carbonate, is put some of the baking soda in the oven at about 400F for an hour or so (stirr mabye once or twice). Take it out after being thourougly baked, and you have Sodium Carbonate."
is this true?
How does that sodium carbonate and metho method work?
Thanks guys...
(Hive Bee)
04-18-04 23:11
No 501568
sodium carbonate's called 'washing soda' and is used to soften water (ie make soaps work better), it can be bought in nice little plastic bags and probably tubs as a 98%ish percent pure. should be in the laundry section at the local supermarket.
(Hive Bee)
04-19-04 00:50
No 501584
Here are links to two posts regarding the extraction of pseudoephedrine from decongestant pills that are available over the counter in Australia
Post 486162 (beez_neez: ""sulfate/antihistamine removal"", Stimulants)
Post 485645 (sublevel: "aussie pills", Stimulants)
Im not sure if those links will work, will somebody check 'em for me
thanks
(Stranger)
04-19-04 01:06
No 501588
yup both of the links work... okai a few questions
is it so important that i use sodium carbonate, can i just use Na0H
Is methanol the same as methylated spirits...
(Hive Bee)
04-19-04 01:15
No 501589
I think they use sodium carbonate (washing soda, should bee avail. at the supermarket) because NaOH can burn the pseudo. I think. Some cleverbee will have to inform on this.
Methylated spirits is ethanol.
Beez_neez (who no longer exists) sais methanol works best for basing. I do not know how much difference there would bee using methylated spirits (ethanol). Maybe someone else knows...
Mary had a little speed, and then she chased her lamb
(Stranger)
04-19-04 01:19
No 501590
in alot of posts whenever an A/B is done, most of the time the baseing medium is just water true? so im guessing water can be used instead of methanol, maybe if i cut my ethanol with swims meth i can get methanol? lol joking guys...
(Hive Bee)
04-19-04 01:28
No 501591
You cant use water. Adding water will make paper mache and you will cry. See my very first post on the hive, been there, done that.
Haha yeah "just stir 50gms methylamphetamine with 200mls ethanol and whala! instant methynol"
(Hive Bee)
04-19-04 02:38
No 501598
Im pretty sure that bezz_neez procedure was performed on the 12hr version of these very pills.
So i suppose it would work on the 24hr version.
A question for the brainy bees,
with the sulfate salt beeing very insoluble in methylated spirits (alcohol), could the PM be washed with metho to remove gakk
And then a waterless a/b would be done
(Of Counsel)
04-19-04 08:17
No 501615
Sodium carbonate was used to base the pill mass more to minimize the activation of Orange gakks than anything else. They appeared to be pH sensitive, and at higher pH levels would become nonpolar soluble. We discovered that if you based with sodium carbonate you minimized the amount of orange gakk that came over. It helped, but wasn't a final cure. Also sodium carbonate is cheaper and less noticed than red devil lye is as a OTC source for something caustic enough to base pseudoephedrine.
I haven't extracted from any pseudo pills from down under, and haven't worked any US pseudo sulfate pills in a good while. When I did, I did a waterless a/b on them after solvent boils, and never had a problem with them then. But--its been a while, and pill formulations change frequently.
mostly harmless
(Hive Bee)
04-19-04 10:04
No 501628
big bags of soda ash (sodium carbonate) can be had at any pottery supply store....
the horror
(Hive Bee)
04-19-04 20:37
No 501714
Afaik, methylated spirits is ethanol that has had pyridine added to it, so it cannot be drunk.
I could be wrong though.
I'm a diamond that is tired, of all the faces i've aquired.
(Stranger)
04-20-04 01:26
No 501743
okai.. heres the latest guys, the pills i have are the SULFATE with an anthis, ive been informed they have that swelling agent so if water is added it turns to SHIT! and its loaded with orange GAK.
Im thinking, a dry acetone boil will remove the anthis
and doing a drybase should work to turn it to a freebase, but the only thing im not sure about is the orange gak, and TCE and JD is impossible to get, so does anyone have any ideas on removing the orange gak, maybe some kind of wash while the pseudo is in its freebase form? i dunno, can anyone help out?
(Hive Bee)
04-20-04 02:15
No 501755
jemma_jamerson (should that say 'jenna jameson'???) said that after solvent washes (i.e jd/tetra), you could do a water based a/b, cos you'd have clean pee fed. So he means that the jd/tetra would REMOVE THE SWELLING AGENTS, so we use can WATER in the a/b. Since we cant get jd/tetra, I wonder if Xylene and Acetone boils would remove the swellers?? If so, a bee could do xyl/acy boils, and then proceed with a simple water a/b.
I think it was Geez who said that washing the NP with a naoh solution helps remove orange gaak. Also, basing with sodi carb would help with the orange problem.
Geez, (or someone else), What steps could bee taken to stop orange1or2 from coming over? Just the two that i mentioned? Any other steps?
(Stranger)
04-20-04 04:39
No 501774
tce can be found but it is labelled pce as active still plenty around
most of pills here now contain orange and the ph fucking
gakk and anti crystaling agent (you will smell it on evap)
pill masses can be motivated by dh20 in small amounts without affecting mass
after freebase is pulled evap non polar and see what youve got. lye wash in this stage, as washing in nonpolar will
cause you a fuckin nightmare in losses.
still trying to find a perfect workaround the ph altering
gakk
(Hive Bee)
04-20-04 13:19
No 501860
Gakk? What Gakk?
Swiks old man STILL just extracts with methylated spirits, and STILL cooks with hypo, NEVER does post rxn washes or acy flashes, just steam distills, and STILL makes gear. He only cooks for personal use (small rxns), but still makes gear that will get one going. Swik doesnt sample it so he cannot speak for the quality. But its still meth!
Why hasnt he been crippled by all the gakks? I do not understand!
Swik wants to try some ethanol extracted pseudo and follow up with a 24hr rp reflux and see what heppens!
(Hive Bee)
04-20-04 18:45
No 501927
aussie version of jap drier is terebine. its in the paint section in 500ml cans, from diggers i think.
I'm not racist,
I hate everyone.
(Hive Addict)
04-20-04 19:17
No 501933
just base slowerly with sodium carbonate mate
with your non polar already in there, so the goods get obsorbed before the orange beast get activated
beez_kneez post is exactly the same pills, so if you can get toluene then for it use that...
let us all know
FEAR MY GEAR
epistemologicide
signed -nous
http://www.counterorder.com
(Stranger)
04-20-04 23:47
No 501990
okai guys this is what ive done.
i had the 240mg 10mg anthis, 24 hour pills
crushed up and soak in mineral spirits over night to remove povodine
boiled in xylene times 3... not much gak come out when cold water was added to the xylene decants
then an acetone boil was done for good measure
pill mass was dry throughly and equal mass of sodium carbonate was added and 1/4 NaoH was added, everything was a nice powder and was mix together throughly while still dry, then some PCE (aussie equalivent to TCE) was added, just enough to moisten the mixture.
Xylene was added, heated a little and xylene decanted, a second pull was done (and accidently thrown out.. DOH!)
Now the Xylene is evapping and what is appearing are crystals that range from 1mm to 10mm in length and are extremly skinny, the crystals are looking like very very tiny glass rods... now i dont know if this is what freebase crystals look like, can anyone help? and once its dry completly i will weigh up to see how much ive got.
I started with 1.7g of pseudo sulfate... i ended up with 0.4g of freebase, and i still dont even know if these are freebase, if i did this same method with alot more, lets say 10g to start with, and i didnt throw out the pull, do you think i will be able to obtain a decent yeild?
(Hive Bee)
04-21-04 00:47
No 502002
Hey did you add water or metho or anything to activate the base?
If not, you will have little or no pdef in you NP!!!!
(Stranger)
04-21-04 01:05
No 502010
i added PCE (brake cleaner) to activate the base, like in this post Post 485645 (sublevel: "aussie pills", Stimulants)PCE WILL activate the base wont it?
(Hive Bee)
04-21-04 01:23
No 502014
I think that the PCE would be like a replacement for TCE (like in the tetra trap), and that either water or eth/methanol would have to bee added to activate the base...
In the tetra trap, TCE is used and water or methanol STILL has to be added to activate the base.
(Stranger)
04-21-04 01:30
No 502015
would methylated spirits be abled to use to activate the base (ethanol)
Ive been informed that terebine is the same as JD, so im thinking a PCE and Terebine wash should clean things up nicely then an A/B
(Hive Addict)
04-21-04 01:52
No 502016
no sources mate!!!
methanol works best, as beez kneez describes
dont know about metho
FEAR MY GEAR
epistemologicide
signed -nous
http://www.counterorder.com
(Stranger)
04-21-04 02:54
No 502020
what did i post that was a source? and also can anyone verify that a PCE/terebine soak is the same as a tce/jd
(Hive Addict)
04-21-04 13:03
No 502119
Terebine is not an equivalent substitute for JD.
The source indicated above somewhere, states that it contains:
INGREDIENTS
Mineral turpentine 72%
Cobalt octoate 14%
Manganese octoate 14%
The JD used stateside in battling OI and II gaaks contains only:
Petroleum Distillate
Naphthenic Salts
Accept only the real mccoy!
I'll look around an aussie search engine to see if JD is available at the consumer level.
The PCE will work to remove most polymers.
Since these are time released and most likely dry matrix, try doing an IDEA extract as outlined, followed by an A/B.
This should get ya closer than you are now.
The IDEA method was never performed on sulfate pills to the best of my knowledge and maybe somebee will offer some refining suggestions or warnings if this route is chosen.
There should be no side rxns with the sulfate using Acetone, Metho, Isopropyl, aqnd PCE as the wash mix.
In fact, if what was posted is true about the Pfed sulfates alcohol solubility issues, The IDEA Method might be better suited for sulfate compared to hcl pills.
If this seems like a worthy try, The write-up can be referenced here:
../rhodium /pseudo.
TCE and PCE are the same chemical!
Good luck!
a little less conversation, a little more reaction
(Stranger)
04-21-04 22:39
No 502213
oright im gonna give it a try... just one question, with the idea method, the mixture that is used to clean pills are TCE, Acetone, denatured alky and iso alky, wont the two alkys PULL pseudo?, this is what ive never understood about this procedure. The aussie version of denatured is methylated spirits im pretty sure and i cant get ISO, well only 67%. So can i just miss the ISO alky?
(Hive Bee)
04-22-04 00:39
No 502223
Hey wares have a look at the bottom of this page in this link.
http://www.eezimmermanco.com/products_fi
I'm not racist,
I hate everyone.
(Stranger)
04-22-04 04:49
No 502237
okai.. well swim has concluded that the 240mg pills are just too GAKKED, swim has tried everything under the sun from PCE washes, bathes, waterless A/Bs, soaks bla bla bla... swim thinks the main problem in these are the swelling agent, cant get rid of em without JD, swim was told that terebine is the same as JD, but even using terebine in his methods swim could still not win... :( sad isnt it...
well the only 30mg pills on the market normaly contain 500mg of paracetamol and a whole bunch of other shit, and there are a few 120s, swim is thinking of buyin a bunch of dif pills, prob cost a few hundred bucks cuz of the dam aussie prices, and test them all, but before that swim thinks he might try some syrup extractions... swim is felling pretty depressed
(Newbee)
04-22-04 14:39
No 502320
Mate't,Jemma is right look in the small Auto,parts,supply stores and look for brake cleaner,usually red can.The per is the same as the tetra ,only one is 90%tet and 10%Co2,the other is 70% pure.Also look in Vcr,Tv repairs:=they have trichloroTtrifluoroethane used for Vcr tape head cleaner etc.Sodium Carbonate is at the pool supply stores here.Try at tourist's camping supply outlets for VmpNaptha,brought in for visitors from abroad for Coleman stoves and gas lites.Alot of cans say Colemans fuel on it,then in small print contains:VmpNaptha. Cheers
(Hive Addict)
04-22-04 15:45
No 502329
8ball: What am I missing? I didn't see what you are refering to.
PM if it is forbidden source stuff.
12cheman:That was two questions!
just one question,
(1)with the idea method, the mixture that is used to clean pills are TCE, Acetone, denatured alky and iso alky, wont the two alkys PULL pseudo?,
The IDEA Method goes into detail about how to deal with the wash fluid that may have pulled pseudo because of the alcohol present. But since the sulfate was reportedly being dealt with, and if the sulfate solubility data is correct, then the alky should not pull much if any at that percentage.
(2)The aussie version of denatured is methylated spirits im pretty sure and i cant get ISO, well only 67%. So can i just miss the ISO alky?
Ibee used 70% Iso in the IDEA Method! The dry matrix is not a concern once it's disabled by the initial wash so try the 67% Iso. Methylated spirits from all I've read is the equivalent of Denatured Alky.
Use the methylated where ever Denat is called for.
Try aquiring anything other than 120's or 240's.
Good Luck.
a little less conversation, a little more reaction
(Stranger)
04-22-04 16:03
No 502332
SWIM doesn't recomend 240's to any of his fellow bees, but if you already have them, SWIM heard the IDEA method on rhodium will work, as will the TCE/JD.
SWIM has personally used the full turps cure w/ 240 Sudafeds and it worked.
(Stranger)
04-22-04 22:40
No 502409
okai for startes epherdine sulfate has Difficultly soluble in alcohol, where as PSEUDOepherdine is easily soluble in alcohol. So whoever said that pseudoephedrine not being soluble in alcohol is wrong. A simple search on rhodium will give you these answers.
Popi: your tellin me where to find sodium carbonate, PCE and non polar solvents... why? i have all these things arlready.
And i did do the IDEA method on the 240s, and still ended up with gaked shit... even after a dry a/b. And these are aussie pills remember.
(Hive Bee)
04-23-04 00:31
No 502422
And i did do the IDEA method on the 240s, and still ended up with gaked shit... even after a dry a/b
How did you know that the pseudo still had gakk in it?
(Stranger)
04-23-04 00:47
No 502427
when my solvent evaped, there were no crystals, nothing of the sort that even closey resembled pseudo.
(Stranger)
05-25-04 11:32
No 509548
DrLucifer: absolutely right - methylated spirits IS ethanol, with piridine added to make it taste horrible (probably other bad effects, too).
It's called "methylated" because it also contains methanol (from memory).
If you want methanol, it is used as a fuel for model airplanes/cars/boats etc. Just if you wanna buy it, just make sure you buy it straight - it's also available pre-mixed (for the 2 stroke engines) with oil, and sometimes nitro as well.
(NB methanol likes water - probably wanna dry it out before use)
(Hive Addict)
05-25-04 23:46
No 509684
It's called "methylated" because it also contains methanol
No......its called "Methylated" because it used to contain Methanol.
The use of Pyridine has made the addition of methanol obsolete.
Methylated Spirits contains Ethanol, Water and Pyridine.
This is a Lighthouse..........your call.
(Stranger)
05-26-04 08:54
No 509747
Any technique using alcohol or acetone as the basing medium is IMHO dirty from the outset, and has little potential for a very clean extract.
Any technique using toluene or xylene to extract with is also junk.
Although if you gas or titrate after using your obviously flawed method, then of course you might leave some of the gunk that you needlessly dragged along with your mighty extraction solvent.
How much gak do you think turps or petroleum ether pulls at the best of times?
Cellulose and hydrogels don't work very well after basification, because the pfed molecules become much smaller relative to the pore size of the polymer. And yes they are based even when within the encapsulation.
Each to his own.
(Hive Bee)
05-26-04 15:35
No 509791
Any technique using alcohol or acetone as the basing medium is IMHO dirty from the outset, and has little potential for a very clean extract.
Several bees have used the The Tetra Trap and other waterless a/b's to pull clean pseudoephedrine, where alcohol is used as the basing medium.
(Stranger)
05-26-04 18:08
No 509823
The Tetra Trap isn't waterless. But it works better with DCM, and much better with nothing at all except H2O, and a mild hydrocarbon.
Use about 3.5-4 tablespoons of carbonate too. I mistakenly typed 1.5-2 tblspns, the same as prescribed, the other day. But I've since been told that about 4 has been used. (it's not big batch friendly)
The yields are HIGH if time is taken, and rapid skewer plowing of the pill mass and base is done for at least 20% of the 3hrs during the first pull.
The spraying is also important, and is done throughout the warming time, at about 10min intervals. 5 sprays, or whenever you get the itch.
You need to test how much your sprayer releases, smaller output is nice, but any sprayer beats chucking a spoon in. The sprayer swim uses puts out a deceivingly small amount, it's a hair spray bottle, and not a trigger-finger cone-shaped sprayer designed for the purpose.
It depends what you call clean, and whether it requires much more cleaning following. With a weaker NP you maximise your chances of it being minimal.
don't believe me, I don't care.
(Hive Bee)
05-27-04 00:53
No 509888
The Tetra Trap isn't waterless.
The basing medium can bee activated with dH2O OR an OH like EtOH or MeOH.
But it works better with DCM, and much better with nothing at all except H2O, and a mild hydrocarbon.
What do you mean it works much better with nothing at all except water and a mild hydrocarbon? No Tetra at all? The Tetra is employed to 'deactivate' the gaaks while the FB pseudoephedrine moves up into the NP.
don't believe me, I don't care.
Wow.
Also, what's the hair squirter and the plough for?
(Stranger)
05-27-04 18:12
No 509986
What do you mean it works much better with nothing at all except water and a mild hydrocarbon? Yes
No Tetra at all? Yes
The Tetra is employed to 'deactivate' the gaaks while the FB pseudoephedrine moves up into the NP.
Well, you say that, but I don't know that, and I've never seen anything, results or visuals to show that.
I don't think gaks fulfill the foiling purpose they are designed for as well as some people make out. It's just a conversation point.
Swim has used the modified tetra trap on both the most famous white 60s (pfed.hcl) and also the most famous blue 60s with anti-histamine.
Followed by evaporation to get the freebase.
The result is very similar, swim can't tell the difference.
It might work on 120s, although it's a mute point because it's not like the cleaning Olympics, you take what's easiest and what you know works.
It took me years to accept simplicity and the necessary loss.
If you can't appreciate the concept of the necessary loss then it directly effects quality. Choosing easy pills is a part of that.
The spookies never go though, at least for me, I've never been able to bee proud of this...lot of guilt and fear etc.
out.
(Hive Addict)
05-28-04 05:44
No 510045
Remember the reasons tetra was employed in extraction at all.
To attract and remove certain polymers that are soluble in tetra.
Other bees have modified this tetra use in extraction methods and have been quite successful at targeting the isolation and separation of pfed from these gaaks employed to either manufacture pills more efficiently or to foil extraction.It doesn't matter why they are there, bees focus on their removal.
Today there is a myriad of other complex polymers, ER delivery systems, and formulations in use.
Tetra will always be effective at removing the polymers that have an affinity for the solvent.
In this day and age however, multi-solvent combo's are needed as well as multiple steps aimed at removing the gaak.
For quite a while, the opposition that don't want the average consumer extracting pfed, have fed off the information provided here and other boards in order to develop ways of circumventing extractions.
Considering there are only a handful of bees over the years that have effectively developed methods for the collective, I won't hesitate to say we're outnumbered.
Always have been and as a result, we're now outgaaked
GO with what works!
a little less conversation, a little more reaction
(Stranger)
05-28-04 10:25
No 510068
Of course ware.
What's your opinion on how the polymers respond in the dry basing medium though?
I think they get caught up in there and lose effectiveness.
If they swell, they can't form big yield cutting bodies of glue and plastic.
(Of Counsel)
05-28-04 10:55
No 510072
Don't dismiss the use of tetra in the tetra trap quite so quickly, SW. I have long been a proponent of extracting pseudo by an a/b, and have worked with a good many variations on the theme, some posted, many not posted.
Be careful of generalizing to all pills from the ones you are most familiar with. Its very hard to make a valid generalization about extraction methods now without discussing which pills you are extracting the pseudo from. There are pills that can still be a/b'ed without a tetra trap. Sure. They are declining in number, probably as I write. There are some other pills which in my experience yield better, and give up cleaner pseudo, with tetra in the mix when the a/b is performed. Some will give you pseudo with one or two foilants remaining. A couple still give good quality clean pseudo. Or they did the last time I extracted from them.
There are sets of OTC pills that extract much better with tetra during the a/b than they do without, and these are generally the pills heavy with water activated foilants. Dry matrix formula pills can be included with these. Tetra Trap methods held hold these at bay during the extraction. Its not just a matter of what polymers are present, it involves the pill formulation and the foilants selected.
Simple answers are frequently suspect. Simple answers about extracting pseudo from OTC meds are, IMHO, suspect.
mostly harmless
(Hive Addict)
05-28-04 13:50
No 510098
Shane: The swelling agents we are seeing these daze are finely engineered components.
This oily gaak that is riding along is a tough cookie to crack.
This is why I say multiple solvent....multiple steps.
To this day, Ibee has never ever employed a front side A/B because all his experimentation was geared toward near maximum yield of clean Pfed.
There have been many times in the past that after a new formulation hit the shelves, the solventwash/alky extracts that Ibee's accustomed to, would produce the yield but the pfed would be gaaked. These gaaks were narrowed down to encapsulating agents that hitched a ride. Some solvent washes always seemed to rid them.
This brings us to the swelling agents they employ in some pills.
Geez is absolutely right when he says you'll by one particular OTC brand at one store and it will produce nice yield and clean feedstock by employing a known effective extraction method.
You go to another store and buy what's in stock...different brand....different formulation and you're screwed before you get past the middle mark of the process and end up with pfed that's iffy.
When the pfeds iffy, it's nowares good enough and in the process of cleaning it up, you lose a large part of the expected to mechanical loses and stuck on glass demons!
It wasn't long ago that a newly contributed method would work in kentucky and the same method would work in washington state.
Today we are lucky to have a method work for two bees in the same state in the same month.
If you want Ibee's assessment of what's causing this, They have shifted what's included in the individual packages.
Forget trying to run redhots and white 60's in the same extraction batch. Forget trying to run 120's and 60's in the same extraction batch. You'll bee doomed from the start.
This was difficult to do with bulk extraction since the first Orange Gaak hitthe shelves. But it could be done if the orange gaak was isolated and precipitated out before moving on.
It helps to read excerps from patents to understand some of what's taking place concernng encapsulating agents or swelling agents and other prefered inactive ingredients.
If you can get an understanding of what they do and how they act in the formulation, you're that much closer to understanding what may be employed as a viable approach toward effecting their removal.
The encapsulated product may generally be used at the desired level, the amount being dependent upon the amount of active agent to be incorporated, the desired hardness of the tablet, and the oxidative resistance desired. In general, the encapsulated product will be used in an amount of from about 1 to about 95% by weight of the tablet allowing for the active agent to be incorporated in an amount of from about 1 to about 60, particularly from about 10 to about 50%, by weight of the tablet.
The encapsulated product is particularly useful in a compressed tablet. The compressed tablet may be made using any method known in the art, particularly by direct compression of the tablet components. In the alternative, the tablet may be prepared by dry blending the encapsulated product with the other components of the formulation, granulating the mixture such as by fluid bed technology, roller compactor, extrusion, or high shear granulator, and dry compacting to a tablet.
Pharmaceutical excipients known in the art may be added to the pharmaceutical dosage form to impart satisfactory processing, compression, and disintegration characteristics to the formulation. Such excipients include, but are not limited to, diluents, flow enhancer, binders, lubricants and glidants, disintegrants, colors, flavors and sweetening agents. These excipients are well known in the art and are limited only by compatibility and characteristics desired.
Binders for the present invention include gelatin, microcrystalline cellulose, sugars, carboxymethyl cellulose, methyl cellulose, polyvinyl pyrrolidone, acacia, alginic acid, guar gum, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, polyethylene oxide and ethyl cellulose.
Lubricants and glidants include talc, magnesium stearate, calcium stearate, stearic acid, glyceryl behenate, mineral oil, polyethylene glycol, sodium stearyl fumarate, stearic acid, vegetable oil, zinc stearate, and silicon dioxide.
Disintegrants suitable for the present invention include starches, algins, gums, croscarmelose, crospovidone, sodium starch glycolate, sodium laurel sulfate, microcrystalline cellulose, polacrilin potassium, and methylcellulose.
Diluents suitable for the present invention include dicalcium phosphate, calcium sulfate, lactose, cellulose, Kaolin, mannitol, sodium chloride, starch, sugars, calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, dextrates, dextrin, dextrose, fructose, sorbitol, sucrose, and microcrystalline cellulose.
In particular, a binder is added to the tablet formulation to provide a tablet with the desired hardness. In general the hardness of the resultant tablet is at least about 3, more particularly at least about 4, most particularly at least about 6 kilopascals (kP).
If the final desired product is other than a pharmaceutical dosage form, alternative additives known to those arts may be present. For example, flavors and fragrances in a bath oil tablet or surfactants in a detergent tablet.
Upon contact with water, the moisture triggers the release mechanism, allowing the active agent to be released from the encapsulating starch. For example, upon digestion of the pharmaceutical dosage forms, the active agent is released to the body.
Geez: You touched on some points I was trying to make in the above post.
And I agree that a bee should have an arsenal of extraction methods today to choose from because what works on one pill is not gauranteed to work on the next pill.
The same holds true for "What works today, May Not work Tomorrow"
a little less conversation, a little more reaction
(Stranger)
05-28-04 15:56
No 510112
Shane: The swelling agents we are seeing these daze are finely engineered components.
They aren't very good.
An alky extract at the outset of the fine ground pill mass of 240s (OK, this particular group of 240s recently) yielded a turbid solution upon evaporation, of concentrated pfed.hcl.
This was based with NaOH and extracted with turpentine. Crystallised to form a mildy discoloured crystalline product that was recrystallised using four solvents: DCM, acetone, water, alkie (extra tiny amount).
pristine product. It's also the crystallisation method he uses when he's really disappointed at what he sees after the initial evaporation.
2 methods is all swim uses, one is the modified tetra trap for 60s, and the second, is for pills he guesses to be the most difficult. He won't touch Clary-times.
All the second method comprises is an alcohol extract, reduce volume and then A/b. Followed by any post extraction work necessary.
They always require atleast a rinse after either method, in acetone after the first crystallization.
One year ago a pristine product was extracted with toluene, that won't happen today with the same pills.
I used to read all about formulations, but now I couldn't even name the several components that constitute a dry matrix formulation.
what is it, microcryst cellulose, methocellulose.
It isn't important. The eudragit sounds pretty scary, but swim hasn't come across anything like this, or atleast there hasn't been any oilly substance.
'Simple answers are frequently suspect. Simple answers about extracting pseudo from OTC meds are, IMHO, suspect.'
Geez it isn't a simple answer, as IMHO, and I could be wrong, dry basing blind-sided them.
The foilers are aimed at specific cleans, not two and 3 cleans in to the future.
The reason swim stopped solvent boils at the beginning is incase the manufacturers included solubilizers or even bi-carb, in the particular pills he was working on.
I'm not saying I have it all worked out here boys, I've had a plethora of disappointments. SWIM probably hasn't seen half the variety you have.
Another problem is, pills are just too dangerous to buy, so variety isn't his strong point, and is, I'm sure a source of his synicism.
As far as the modified Tetra Trap, just give it a go if you feel like it, if including the perc isn't working too well.
Thanks for the correction, it's just another option, better?
