07-15-03 19:37
No 447655
This is my first post and it might not be in the right area,but I was wondering if there was actually a post regarding non-condenser optimal cook time, as swig has yet to find one after three week of looking. I might just be missing it, but my time at the pc is limited. the ratios swig uses are 12g E, 15gI2, 10g mbrp. please help
what love remains?
(Hive Bee)
07-15-03 19:55
No 447661
Try a about a foot of plastic tubing and a couple thick balloons one inside the other for a minimum of 12 hours at about 100-120C.
It wasn't Me!
(Of Counsel)
07-15-03 20:07
No 447665
(Rated as: good read)
There is no optimal time for the reaction you describe. In the absence of a description of ratios of precursors, the amount of water added and the temperature you intend to use to drive the reaction the question is meaningless. All those factors are interrelated. The method you intend to employ is far less controllable or predictable than a wet reflux. Shorty gives you a long time answer assuming, most likely middle of the road, average ratios and temps.
I suggest very simply that you do it by a controllable and reliable method whose consistency can be like clockwork, whose difficulty is low, whose learning curve is gentle, and whose yields in top quality methamphetamine are not surpassed by any other method. That is the long wet relflux with a flask and condenser. You may proceed any number of ways. You will one day try this simple method and slap your forehead with a cry of dismay at the precursors you wasted and the disappointments you endured with the steeper learning curve the other approches carry.
Your choice. But it is good advice, learned stubbornly by one who did not care to be persuaded, and used every argument he could to avoid having to agree. And who was. by the way, convinced on his first real attempt at the long wet reflux.
Why take chances, why lose yield, why waste hundreds of dollars over simple glassware and a day's time? Don't. Take the time to do it the simple, easy, effective way from the start.
Or not. Your choice.
Mostly harmless
(Ancient Alchemist Delux)
07-16-03 11:17
No 447816
Sounds like your talking about me! If you wasn't you should have been. (Smile)
Tighten Up! (UH)
(Of Counsel)
07-16-03 12:17
No 447825
Ahhh no, master. Grasshopper speak only to one who do not yet know his shit. Master knows his shit very damn well.
Make superb dope by alchemy, and mastery of reaction. Grasshopper find western scientific method much simpler, less graceful, much boring. But works. 
Mostly harmless
(Hive Bee)
07-16-03 14:25
No 447847
I was assuming that ...
I was assuming that he didnt have or couldn't find a condenser. Of course, the condenser is the right way to do it but if you can't afford it, find it or if you had one and just broke it, the plastic tubing and balloon trick can work. But again, I should stress that the proper way is with a real condenser.
It wasn't Me!
(Hive Bee)
07-17-03 02:15
No 447982
i hear people all the time bitchin and moanin about not havin a condenser.granted its nice to have a friedrickson condenser to use, but you can always make your own using a long glass tube,get a propane torch,blow 4 bubbles in it then put a small hole in top,fashion it to fit stopper,get a fan to blow cool air on it while your reaction is refluxing and there ya go reflux tower.this works ive done it and ive put hundreds of hours on my homemade tower,until i moved up a level or two and found out where and when to get a real one and what type wood best suit my needs.
Meth Its whats for dinner!
(Stranger)
07-17-03 11:42
No 448074
Wow, Mr. Geez, I am humbled that one of your prestige in this forum would even give me a reply. A condenser I will try to aquire and maybe until then I will use the baloon idea. I see that control is a key factor. Much thanx from swig. I can see swig smacking his forehead in the future.
I walk wherever the weather provides
(Hive Addict)
07-17-03 12:03
No 448076
A condenser is not required to produce good quality goods. Very good quality goods can bee produced with ghetto equiptment. A piece of braded reinforced poly tube, with a punchball atop, will work quite well.
Most large scale dreamers that S/D has known, simple runa hose into a large buckett of kitty litter.
The major advantages of the puchball setup, are, that its, non-breakable, small and compact,disposable, requires no running water, or stand.
Sorry,I had my tang all toungled behind my eye teeth, and I couldn't see what I was saying.
(Hive Bee)
07-17-03 12:56
No 448083
at least one holding up the good olī Crystal Meth Board tradition which says:
If ya cannot convince them - confuse them !!
here in variation A/f13 (f for FMan of course):
If they are nearly convinced - confuse them nevertheless !
Hey! Thats no flame as you made my day - I had the best laugh for long !
Genious!
(pssst! I have strong evidence Geez and his moral commando intended to tell that a first time synth might be much easier done with flask and else. Thats true, but Geez for sure showers with warm water only - never mind the the weak!)
(Of Counsel)
07-17-03 13:46
No 448094
(Rated as: excellent)
And the disadvantage of the punch ball and hose is that it is NOT reliable, consistent and dependable to the individual who is learning this from scratch.
Jacked and Squidippy and lots of other bees, myself included, have done, and do the synth, using a hose method. I have many more of those reactions under my belt than I have wet refluxes. I mastered hose methods, and mastered the push-pull. I learned with experience how to do them successfully, and how to get good yields.
I'm not saying these methods do not work. They do if done properly. They have to be done properly. Each one has a different envelope of success and none of them have as big an envelope for success as the wet reflux. Do these methods correctly and you make good stuff. Get outside that envelope and your yield goes south.
You will have to learn hands on the signs and signals and keys that tell you the reaction is in that envelope of success. You will have failures. Everyone does. Get ready for them. You will have close ones that fail, that would not have failed had you done a wet reflux. You will learn over time how to succeed consistently. I did. I know cooks who still use a hose and rubber glove, a hose and punch ball, or a hose and muffler jar. They make meth. Some of them make good meth.
BUT..and my point is not to belittle anyone, or be snide and cutting, nor to sound like I have some special privilege to sneer. I don't. I followed Jacked's advice to learn this synth, and if you want to know who to be honored to have post in your thread, be honored that he takes the time. I'm verbose as hell and spout off at the least opportunity. He's tight with his words. But he KNOWS.
My comments aren't made to be hateful, but to make a point. My point is if you are new to doing this, for your own sake take the damn time and make the effort to acquire or make a condenser, get an actual flask, get a good lab-quality hotplate or a variable temperature deep fat fryer ($25.00) and avoid the learning curve. I want to make the point in a way that convinces you the method is not just better by a little bit, but that you are the only fool you get to blame for not doing the synth this way from the start. I say fool, because that is how I felt when I finally ran one 36 hours. I felt like a damn fool for not doing what the chemists had suggested politely for years. My suggestion, accordingly, is not as polite as the one I was given, and didn't take. I made it that way trying to get you to take it NOW instead of forty reactions down the road.
I was advised to get a flask, get a condenser, do a long wet relux. I knew they knew what they were talking about, and rememeber thinking I'd like to do that, but I'm ghetto...Even after I got a flask, a condenser, and an oil bath...I balked at the long time, and the extra water. I made six different excuses for not doing a wet reflux. I made good dope. As good as it gets. What was this noise about long refluxes?
I may be and old dog, but I learn new tricks. If You can get me to do them once. I did not need a second long reflux to convince me what a stupid fool I had been for so long, disregarding the advice the chemists had given since the start: "do a long wet reflux."
I can tell you all day that you will be better off using a condenser, and you will think its a matter of degree, and say "so what?"" Fifty reactions later, if you do one with a flask and condenser, let it reflux, and discover like I did that you should have taken the advice the chemists gave you back then. You will then go kick yourself in your own dumb ass for not listening. That is exactly what I did. Don't make my mistakes. If I can make you listen by being a little snide, all the better. I made my point. The wet reflux will answer all the other questions for me.
Maybe, just maybe, if some bee had been a little more like Placebo and sneered and grumped a little more, and made the point to me so that it stung just enough to make me take it... I would have gotten the flask, condenser, oil bath, and run it for two days then.
I don't give a damn if you ever succeed with a hose and a balloon, learn the push-pull, figure out the two, four, or six hour cook, or use a muffler jar for anything. I will give any newbee who cares to listen an earful of how to save time, save money, avoid failure and make dope as good as it gets from the start: do a long wet reflux. The surest, easiest, fastest way to get from pseudo to meth is by the road the chemists take. That is the main road, the interstate. Its not a secret, scenic, clandestine shortcut with good truckstops. Take the interstate. Get a flask and condenser and do a long wet reflux. Its boring but you get to the distination of high yields and damn good dope quicker and with far less hassle that you ever would on the other road. If this post sounds a little snide and stinging, so be it. If it convinces you to do the long wet reflux, it is worth the time it took to piss you off. I know it is worth your time to do a long wet reflux, particularlyif you are learning how to do this.
Notice that NO ONE tells you NOT to do a long wet reflux. WHY IS THAT? Think about it.
You know the answer.
Mostly harmless
(Hive Bee)
07-17-03 15:53
No 448116
if you want to go the hard way like real methcook do it. <ehem>
The warm shower feature of Geez was aready diclosed what to say more? weak. so weak.
The poor Newbees canīt make it right! A long time anyone got flamed who asked for a easy meth cooking method and now itīs not ok to ask for the most technical overkill and arabesk designed way for a first time synth and everbody tells "hey we have an asseasy methsynth for ya..."
Did I tell it in this or another thread? Canīt remember. So again:
- Who wants to synth his meth for thy first time has to get two (2) pieces of glassware which are cheap and readily available for everyone.
(someone who has access to an computer to read this and tells he canīt get a fucking piece of glassware is a moron - period)
- He shallt clean his pills by thy state of thy art and refer to thy newest VideoEditor, Geezmeister or Wareami (for thy brave) post on this topic.
- He shallt prepare his HI in advance and not in situ for better control of reactions and failure analysis. (this says: make your hydriodic acid first. look for SHORTYs posts)
- He shallt not expect to succeed first or second time - you are unknown to thy methgods this never forget. Do the traditional head-against-wall dance and try again.
- He shallt not believe that the product from first success is really from the dishes of the methgods also it is better as all he had before. It will be more whats fallen down from the table but this he will learn only if he works on.
- Work on bee! Work on! But work on quality first - yields go up with quality by time automatic. But if he gets greedy and goes for yields only lightning will stroke him whilst shitting and the methgods will apply the tweakworm to him who eats his brain (so there is one)!
somebody daring to discuss the will of thy gods?
no?
better this is, everybody has to shit from time to time ...
remark: Geez, oilbath is for pommes, ethylene-glycole is superior (not for pommes of course).
(Hive Bee)
07-17-03 17:00
No 448131
Thats one for autumn lamb
If done as suggested a single piece of glassware may be sufficient for the ones with glassware store/hide problems:
this:
to use as flowervase in times not needed. it is actually abused for this purpose very often by so called "housewives"
Before it is told to be to "fragile" I want to tell that I bought one og these today and asked my glassblower on this. He stated it would not be a explicite reaction vessel but at least as good as an Erlenmeyer as made from the same glass in thickness and for being more rounded.
NoNos are:
- putting directly on hotplate
- if cooling is applied to the shaft it must NOT start directly where the shaft is going flask but 2cm or so above.
- breaking it will make it mostly unusable.
my sig is for cigarettes and a beer
(Stranger)
07-18-03 09:26
No 448295
Ditto on long, wet...SWIT reads in general short and dry as being difficult for good clean yield and easy to overheat. Recently very poor yield with 5hrs. (SWITs a novice), so currently seeing what at least 14hrs@100c will get. At least opt for a homemade condesor that stays below room temp the entire cook time if not able to get a real one.
Infactuation is the perfect drug
Modify it
Mind, body and soul can't differentiate
(Hive Bee)
07-18-03 09:36
No 448297
glucifer69
I think swig should just make himself a phat graham condensor out of clear PVC tubing (reinforced for RP/I2) coiled up(wrap it around a fluro tube over night to shape it) inside a nice sized piece of white PVC pipe. Affix an end-cap at both ends with a hole the size of your clear PVC tubing. (but don't glue the top cap on, its your ice lid entry point)
Tie it up with a pully or thin rope to a relatively sturdy part of the ceiling.
Add a HDPE tap near the bottom of the white PVC pipe so you can tap water out mid-rxn in to a bucket...so you can retop it up with ice as it melts.
So get,
-a thick piece of white PVC pipe
-two white end caps
-a LONG piece of clear pvc tubing the size of your stopper whole
-a black HDPE tap from the home irrigation section of hardware.
Home and hosed. Make up the rest as you go along, like if you have trouble sealing the holes in end caps and water is leaking. Just remember what is going to bee in contact with what chemical (water or HI).
Its so easy I just can't tell ya.
Spit on that ballooon! YUK. Look down upon it!
actually keep it to put on top of the condensor, where it will bee coming in contact with little if any HI.
(Newbee)
01-10-04 19:59
No 481720
This thread was my very first post here at the hive and truly started Gluecifer down a path full of honey!
Since this post swim has done over 50 rxns, with maybe 10 of them being LWR. Let me tell you it is the easisest, route to pure methamphetamine. It also sports better yeilds than the push/pull rxn. But, swim can't say that the potency is any better than his pp shit because, he feels he has the push/pull down pat.
Ibee pm'd a certain Ancient Alchemist at the Hive, and he summed up how to get killer shit from the push pull every time.(At least swim did after following his fellow bees directions.)
Anyway, swim thought it would be fitting that he try to convey the correct way to do the push/push pull. Just the rxn, no notes on construction of the apparatus.
Here it goes. (This would be for a pseudoephedrine HCL reaction.)All reagents must be of the utmost cleanliness!!!! If one thinks their reagents are not clean enough than they are probably not.
First of all we need 4ml of h2o for every ounce of pfed. One may adjust their water if usining Iodine crystals from tincture, as if not properly dried the may still contain h2o.
Gluecifer does not make his HI first he puts in his reagents in this order: Pfed, Iodine, RP, H2O. Hint:Always have an ice bath around, will sometimes save your ass with runaway starts.
After you add the reagents together one may or may not need to add heat immediately. Try heating up the flask with your palm at first. If U haft to add heat at first, put in on 100 degrees F. You should have some bubbling now. Slowy raise to 150F. Don't get carried away here and crank the heat excessively or to quickly, give it time to transfer to the reagents.
Keep your shit at 150F until the bubbling slows and one must swirl it to keep the rxn going. About 50 minutes to an hour should have passed by now. At this point it is time to push the heat to 190F. This will bring on Phase 2.
After this one must simply let the reaction run it's self out. All the action inside the rxn vessel will subside and the bubbles will be small and clear.
About one hour and 15 minutes to one hour and a half will have passed during this time.
After this do the post-reaction workup and Viola, killer ass honey. Follow this write-up verbatim Post 428962 (Osmium: "RP/I2 post-reaction workup: The short version", Stimulants). Also read the first four posts in this thread.
Don't skimp and not recrystallize, recrystillazation and doing an A/B before basifying are two steps that must not be skipped, if you want primo honey!
I hope that bees can understand this, because it is almost plaguerized from a PM an elder bee sent me a while ago and since then my honey has been top notch(compared to everyting else Gluecifer has sampled, whether it be from his area or out on the road.
P.S. Gluecifer knows that there are already many write ups on the pp, but he felt that this was concise and like he said, if the directions are followed killer shit every time.
Peace to all ya Beez
Absolutely NO CREDIT
(Hive Bee)
01-11-04 00:56
No 481775
The answer is still make one. Soak EVERYTHING in 30% NaOH, and rinse 3 times. Fuck the chemists.
Don't buy one if you have a bad feeling expressed in the gut...
(Newbee)
01-11-04 09:24
No 481840
made one, like halfkast(spectral), suggested a long time ago. The main reason Gluecifer still push/pulls is because he can make killer meth that way and it does not take as long. This is the main point swim was wanting to get across.
Swim may lose a bit of wieght compared to the LWR, but guess he is just hard headed.
BTW,Post 448297 (halfkast: "glucifer69 I think swig should just make ...", Chemicals & Equipment), works like a charm and like swim said so much thanx to all whom have helped.
Absolutely NO CREDIT
(Hive Bee)
01-11-04 13:45
No 481882
No worries of course gluce!
As far as homemade condensors go, a stopperless one SHORTY described is worth a look using a fluro tube, and teflon tape.
Also, for the plastic soft drink bottle condensor I described (same as the PVC except using an upright SDB), the solution to the difficulty attaching a tap to the thin plastic is to simply pour the melted ice out of the pigeon hole you refill the bottle with ice!
anyway, maybee the ease of construction (easier than a bong) will motivate you to swap the P/P for it!
(Newbee)
01-11-04 23:42
No 481952
If you insist on using shortys idea ( a good one), go ahead and break out your dremmel and your torch. Swim has seen them with indentations every two in. He even saw one with a drip tip. also, no need to scrub the inside with a cloths hanger. The white stuff comes right off with muriatic acid.
(Newbee)
01-12-04 07:48
No 482025
Swim thought that good 'ol table salt would remove the white stuff. Swim would rather use that because of the Muriatic fumes. Could anybee correct swim if he is wrong?
Hey Spectral, just made the pop bottle version condenser and it is truly easier or as easy as making a bong.
absorb what is useful, reject what is useless
(Hive Bee)
01-13-04 02:32
No 482157
There you go gluce you taught me that salt can bee used to clean the white stuff out of fluros, so we'll round it off to even.
do you use plain salt as an abrasive or mix it with water?
glucie, the times that I've played with flouro lights I've just used water, a cloth & a coat-hanger.
maybee a really dilute HCl soly would be a good step to finish the cleaning chemically?
nice sig ;-)
(Hive Bee)
01-13-04 06:54
No 482181
First Gluecifer just puts in salt and shakes from end to end. Then repeat the process with a little bit of water, to remove all salt grains. Let stand to dry or use a cloth and clothes hanger to dry.
Stole my sig from something Bruce Lee used to say often. He applied this in his martial arts (as I have too), but as he explained it does apply to life or anything else as well. Bruce's #1 student, Dan Inosanto wrote a book with the same title, I suggest it for reading.
absorb what is useful, reject what is useless
01-14-04 02:00
(Rated as: off-topic)