01-24-02 11:16
No 260275
Hello, im new to this forum, and looking through the archives, i found a post referring to fentanyl analogs. The post was by drone and in the thread drone discussed posting an otc recipe, but i asume it was never posted. Id greatly appreciate it if drone could post the recipe, or at least discuss it, all thoughts on this matter are very much welcomed.
(Chief Bee)
01-24-02 12:35
No 260297
The method was posted, and is archived at ../rhodium /dronefe
There is no detailed step-by-step method posted though, and that is probably a good thing, as someone who is not able to synthesize the fentanyl analog from the directions given in that document is not an experienced chemist enough to handle a strong compound like that analog without risking poisoning/killing himself in the process.
(Stranger)
01-24-02 14:49
No 260324
Well, considering you posted
Rhodium [Image] posted 07-31-98 08:31 AM
Administrator
[Click Here to See the Profile for Rhodium]
----------------------------------------
When will we get a step-by-step "recipe" for the
production of OTC fentanyl analogs here? Such a text
would get a special place on my chemistry page. It is
always fun to change the world as we know it ;)
I dont think it's an unreasonable question to ask, it would be very interesting, and i agree with you , it is very dangerous, more the reason to have a detailed method. Btw, if my post sounds snotty, I apologize, computers are very impersonal, it just comes out this way:)
(Chief Bee)
01-24-02 20:26
No 260399
Don't drag up things I wrote four years ago... I was almost fresh out of highscool back then, and the advice I give nowadays is somewhat wiser and more mature.
The main reason there is no step by step method written yet is that nobody has performed the particular synthesis yet. The activity of the compound was extrapolated from various SAR assays and its synthesis gleaned from at least a half-dozen different chemistry journals, and has not been put together to an optimized method yet.
(Hive Addict)
01-24-02 23:21
No 260459
Another problem with those super-active compounds is that it becomes a major pain in the ass to distribute, and that OD'ing is too fucking easy.
(Chief Bee)
01-24-02 23:54
No 260487
Distribute? Just make a millimole batch and make a solution of it to use for yourself (for the next few years or so).
Yes I know, anyone making the stuff would obviously distibute the stuff. I suggest the old idea of making a very dilute alcoholic solution of the fentanyl, and soak sugarcubes or blotter papers with it, if distribution is unavoidable...
(Stranger)
01-25-02 05:25
No 260592
Same advice swim gave the guy who wanted to transport his mdma crystals by dissolving in a solvent. Swim thinks the blotter and sugar cubes are played out. Swim likes gingersnaps, more surface area and much more tasty than blotter. Who doesn't like cookies?
"No I'll tell you what insanity is, insanity is majority rules"
(Hive Bee)
01-27-02 01:47
No 261273
Since fentanyl is too potent for recreational use (ED50 = 0.0011 mg / kg), I suggest the synthesis of the open-chain analogue: 2,3"seco"fentanyl (ED50 = 0.35 mg / kg). This minimizes the danger of ODing.
(Chief Bee)
01-30-02 00:22
No 262452
The Synthesis and Pharmacological Evaluation of 2,3 “Seco” Fentanyl (../rhodium/pdf /secofentanyl
Abstract
A structurally novel, 2,3 “seco” analogue of fentanyl has been synthesized by a short and efficient procedure.
Central-analgesic activity was found to be ca. 30 times lower than fentanyl but still several times higher than morphine.
(Daddy)
01-30-02 06:18
No 262618
Where's that write-up from that guy who suddenly came out of the woodwork and declared he made a mole of some potent fentanyl derivative, and got quite pissed off when people started to doubt him?
He explained how he did it with all precautions in place, and succeeded.
That thread gone? LT/ (has it somewhere ona HD.)
WISDOMwillWIN
(Chief Bee)
01-30-02 15:35
No 262735
I think he said he used Siegfrieds writeup on my page.
(Hive Bee)
01-30-02 19:24
No 262798
I think that Siegfrieds procedure is a very elegant one.
One can easily modify it to get alpha-methyl fentanyl, 3-methyl fentanyl or sulfentanyl. After some consideration, I think that is not very wise to produce the last two derivatives.
After the condensation of aniline with NPP you can also use Zn / AcOH to reduce the imine (instead of NaBH4). See procedure for 2,3 'seco' fentanyl.
I have a question. What would happen if you used acetic acid anhydride to acylate the ANPP instead of propionic acid anhydride? Would the product be active?
(Chief Bee)
01-30-02 20:53
No 262832
The N-acetyl analog is 14 times weaker than the N-propionyl (fentanyl), making it almost weak enough to handle without a glove-box.
(Old P2P Cook)
01-30-02 21:46
No 262861
The N-acetyl analog is 14 times weaker than the N-propionyl (fentanyl)
So, I would hazard a guess then that the amine intermediate prior to acylation is nearly inactive. If so, since acylation is the last step, purification should be done on the amine then the pure amine can be acylated in such a manner as to never require that the active, amide form be isolated from solution.
(Hive Bee)
01-31-02 00:02
No 262913
Terbium, you are right !!!
So, are the intermediates is the synthesis (NPP and ANPP) toxic?
(Chief Bee)
01-31-02 00:21
No 262921
Yes, definitely. I would expect no noticeable activity from the amine at all. The N-butyryl derivative is 1/10 the potency of fentanyl too, so propionyl is certainly the optimal chain length.
After the amine is acylated, it should be taken up in a non-polar solvent, and washed with base to remove propionic acid, the only materials left in solution should be Fentanyl and unreacted amine. They should be separable by column chromatography, by their varying polarity. The resulting fractions of fentanyl are then collected and quantitatively assayed.
But I guess nobody would bother with that separation, as I believe noone would have second thoughts about ingesting microgram quantities of a compound even if it would only be 75% pure.
(Newbee)
05-04-02 17:38
No 304894
i have seen a ref using Zn/AcOH to reduce the n-subst-piperidone-aniline imine derivitive in place of NaBH4. is there any reason why Al/Hg cannot not be considered to reduce the imine?
(Chief Bee)
05-04-02 20:58
No 304932
Al/Hg is probably a viable alternative too.
(Hive Prodigy)
05-04-02 23:43
No 304970
Rhodium (or anyone who would like to comment) :
All active (read as potent) fentanyl analogs I've seen onlone and in The Designer Drugs Directory all have the propionamide function in the molecule. Coincidentally, this also happens to be pretty much the last step in the synthesis of these beauties (not counting salt formation).
I have been wondering, as it seems logical to me at least, if a synthesis of fentanyl or analogs is only dangerous in the final stages, where the propionyl group is added to the amine, and a salt is formed. What I mean is, the biological danger of fentanyl synthesis is not present until these stages where the active (potent) compound is brought into being.
This means that all the preceeding stages are normal lab procedure (although a few interesting chemicals are required, yes) and the final stages are the only ones where the extra extra extreme caution need be exercised, such as gloveboxes, etc.
I just wanted a 2nd and possibly 3rd opinion on this notion, if I could get one.
PrimoPyro
Vivent Longtemps La Ruche!
(Chief Bee)
05-05-02 00:30
No 304987
Yes, that's correct. The Fentanyl molecule without the propionamide function is completely inactive, so all the steps up to and including the anilinopiperidine are not dangerous, only during/after the acylation and the subsequent salt formation.
(Stranger)
05-05-02 04:23
No 305050
(Rated as: dangerous)
...is this the writeup you're referring to Rhodium and LT?
SIEGFRIED'S FENTANYL SYNTH REWORK by OZZA
THIS is a clear cut (every day chemists) guide to Fentanyl synthesis, adapted from Seigfried's Fentanyl synth - RHODIUM'S PAGE, which in my opinion is 50% correct. My adaption is a clear cut, updated format that cuts through all the crap and talks in "real time".
"Fentanyl synthesis re-visited & re-hashed"
For this synth, you want to use no smaller than a 3-neck-2000ml rb flask and up.. trust me. Any time I mention heat, its done with a mag/hot plate stirrer with an oil bath of peanut oil.
1- 25 g of 1-(2-phenethyl)-4-piperidone (also known as N-phenethyl-piperidone-4) is mixed with 60 ml aniline until dissolved. The 3-methyl analog requires N-phenethyl-3-methyl-piperidone-4 and the alpha analog uses N-(2-phenylpropyl)-piperidone. The para-fluoro analog could also be made, by using para-fluoro aniline, but the purification process would have to be altered.
2- 10 grams of 4a molecular sieves are added slowly and the whole mix is stirred (slowly), for 24 hours, at 60 deg cel.
3- The sieves are filtered out of the mix, with a coarse filter, to just remove the sieves.
4- The sieves are washed with 20ml tetrahydrofuran, to get all the mix off them. You can wash twice if this isn't enough. Add this wash to the shite you've just filtered.
5- Take the mix, less the sieves, and add 200ml anhydrous methanol. Give it a good stir, with your mag stirrer, for a few minutes.
6- 15gms of NABH4 are added very slowly ('cause if ya don't your gonna get the mix jumping right out of your flask!)...sooo add about 1gm at a time until the bubbles and foam go down to a level you can deal with. When all is added, stir the mix for about 4 hours at room temp.
7- Now connect the flask to a vacuum distillation set up and distil off the THF and methanol. Be careful not to over heat or burn it. The slower the better. You don't have to evaporate until completely dry cause it will most likley burn it. Just distil until there is a thick sludge at the bottom of the flask.
8- Add 500ml h20 to the flask and sludge. Start up the mag stirrer and start stirring the crap out of it. Add 20ml 35-37% hcl (muriatic acid)...(it really smokes so watch it and don't breath the shit).
9- A thick brown/red oil will form on the top of the h20. Keep stirring for a while until all the oil is on top. Next let it sit...until all of it is on top. (this oil is what you want)
10- Seperate the oil with a sep. funnel or just poor off the h20 and oil carefully. Collect the oil.
11- Toss the rest... keep the brown/red oil.
12- Take the oil and add 80ml pyridine. Stir at room temp or just warm a little if it helps the mix process. Stir for 4 hours.
13- When completely mixed add 77ml propionyl chloride (this shit really stinks and will knock you on your ass so be careful and wear a gas mask or use a good fume hood).
YOU HAVE TO ADD THE PROPIONYL CHLORIDE VERY VERY SLOWY! ..just a few ml's at a time. Before you start, add a thermometer to the flask set-up, because you CAN'T PASS THE 60 DEG C MARK. This is exothermic.. meaning when you add the prop.chlor. it is going to GET REAL HOT all by itself from the chemical reaction. So sit back and add LITTLE BITS VERY SLOWY. During this addition you are still stirring the mix with the mag stirrer.
Add it all then stir for 12 hours at room temp.
14- Your gonna have some nasty looking sludge in the bottom of the flask. That's good.... thats what you want .... now....take 250 ml of muriatic acid (hcl) 35/37% and put it into a seperate 1000ml plus flask. Add 750ml h20. Mix this h20 acid mix and then dump it into the flask with your sludge in it. Immediatley get that mag stirrer going at full tilt. There will be a lot of thick sludge chunks in the mix that are going to take some good stirring to dissolve. Turn on your oil bath at this point to warm the solution. This makes the sludge dissolve a lot easier.... Continue heating and stirring for another 12 hours. You gotta get all that shite dissolved.
15- Now take all the mix and wash it with 200ml ch2cl2 (dichloromethane). Do this twice. This means you need a huge flask or container unless you want to divide it up in smaller parts....anyway you take the acid/h20 sludge mix and empty it into a 2000ml plus flask and then add 200ml dichloromethane and put a lid on it. SHAKE THE HELL OUT OF IT for a good 30 seconds and then let it seperate before you do it again. The stuff you want will be at the bottom in the dichloromethane, which is now brownish. Pour off the water and put the dichloromethane mix in a seperate flask, then repeat this step, adding the dichloromethane to the first batch when done.
16- Now distill off the dichloromethane under vacuum and you will have a thick reddish brown oil. This is your pure fentanyl. Again be careful NOT to over heat when vac. distilling!
17- When NO more dichloromethane comes over, stop the distillation. Let the oil cool for a few hours or just cool it in the sink with some cool h20. When cool, add 200ml of acetone to the flask and swirl the mix for about 5 minutes. The fentanyl hcl will drop out of the acetone, meaning you will see a powder form and start sinking to the bottom .... Let this play out for a few minutes and then filter out the powder. Put the liquid in a flask in the freezer.
This way,if anymore "falls out" you can get it later...Take the filtered powder and spread on a pyrex baking dish. Warm gently, chop and mix...... chop and mix...... To let *ALL* the acetone and solvents evaporate off.
18- When totally dry, you will have roughly 15.5 grams of pure fentanyl hcl.
19- As I'm sure you know by now, YOU CANNOT USE OR SELL THIS IN THIS FORM...AND IF YOU DO YOU WILL HAVE MORE DEATHS ON YOUR HANDS THAN PROFIT!
20- To remedy this....and cut it properly....take 15.5 grams of your product and dissolve in 200ml methanol.
21- Then take 300 gms or roughly half a pound of "lactose" (get it for $4.00 per pound at any health food store). Spread the lactose out on a glass baking sheet and then add dropwise the methanol mix. Then mix it up thouroghly and then when mixed .....put in oven...bareley warm and heat and mix, heat and mix......You have to put in a lot of time mixing this shite so BE PATIENT!!! When dry (make sure you break up the rocks and mix very well) you will have a light brown/yellow to whitish powder that is 50% stronger than the "black-tar" dope on the street from Mexico...or even much stronger than Chinese or Burmese white dope. All this weaker dope is "organic-dope" or diacetyl-morphine that has been synthesized from the opium poppy (papaver somniferum). It is *NO* match for this "SYNTHETIC HEROIN".....At this ratio the amount will be over 1/2 pound of dope....The other chemists recommend adding *ANOTHER* 1/2 pound of lactose to the mix (to make it over 1 full pound) cause it is VERY VERY VERY VERY STRONG .With just a 1/2 pound of lactose, your gonna have dope that's 50% stronger than the *STRONGEST* street dope.......so you be the judge. No matter what you do......you still have to add that first 1/2 pound of lactose....'cause there is no way your gonna be-able to bag and sell the pure fentanyl with out killing a lot of customers. If you add one full pound of lactose to the 15.5 gms of pure fentanyl hcl..... you will have the same potency as "good" black tar or any "good-qaulity" diacetylmorphine.
**SYNTHESIS OF N-PHENETHYL-4-PIPERIDONE**
-Use at least 2000ml round bottom three neck flask for this synthesis.
-Also needed is one 76mm cel. thermometer
-Thermometer adapter
-Magnetic stiirer/hot plate
-Magnetic stir bar/egg or cross(large)
-Oil bath (peanut oil rec.)
-Reflux/condenser (water cooled)
-Sep. funnel or addition funnel
-Distillation condensor (water cooled)
-Vaccuum adapter
-Vaccuum pump with a minimum 29hg rating
-Chemical resistant tubing (to connect vaccuum to glassware)
-Fume hood or proper rated gas mask or enclosed breathing apperataus
-1000ml plus "receiver flask" for vac distilation.
Add to one litre of acetonitrile, 3moles (367.65 grams) of potassium carbonate and then add ten grams of tbab (tetrabutylammoniumbromide). Stir this mix with mag. stirrer/hotplate at 50 to 60 deg cel. for 15-20 minutes. Next add 1 mole (135.5 grams) of 4-piperidone mono hydrochloride in very small amounts so as the c02 evolution is not too vigorous. ie. ADD TINY AMOUNTS OR THE CHEMICAL REACTION WILL CAUSE THE SOLUTION/REACTION TO "JUMP" RIGHT OUT OF YOUR FLASK. After the complete addition of the 4-piperidone is finished, stir at 50-60deg cel. for an hour. Now place your reflux condensor in the middle neck position and add a stopper to one of the angled necks that are left. Start the water thru the condensor and make sure the stopper and condenser are secured snugg and tight, with adequate amounts of "silicon-vaccuum-grease", so as to ensure a tight seal. This will leave "one" neck open.
Now take your sep. funnel/addition funnel and connect to the last open flask neck making sure the funnel is in the "closed position". Add 1 mole (185.06 grams) of phenethyl bromide to the funnel bearing in mind that you need to turn on the funnel so as to "drip" the chemical into the flask very very very slowly. Once the full amount of phenethyl bromide is added, turn off the funnel and turn on the mag. hotplate-stirrer/oil bath to a mild "reflux" temp.....just get it "simmering"...at around 110 to 120 deg cel. This will facilitate a mild reflux...continue for 24 hours.
As this chemical mix reacts, after a few hours of reflux, you will notice a change from a "clear" solution to a more distinct reddish-brown color. The potassium carbonate will not dissolve into the solution as it will continue to stay in its powder/granual like state during the whole synthesis. It is there to absorb the by product of the reaction, so it does not need to dissolve.
After the 24hr reflux, cool the solution to room temp and filter out the potassium carbonate.(it will look like a white yellow powder at this point) You can throw this out, as you only want to save the "reddish-brown" liquid. Take this liquid/solution and put it back into your three neck flask......cap off one side and middle neck with stoppers, attach distillation condensor vaccuum adapter-receiver flask, and turn on water cooled condenser jacket. Turn on vaccuum pump and heat at 100 deg cel. You need to evaporate as much "solvent" out of the solution as possible with out **BURNING-IT**...So use as little heat as possible and once the solvent starts to "come-over" into the receiving flask, maintain the lowest temp so as to facilitate flow, until
a thick sludge/tar forms on the bottom of the flask. It will be a very dark reddish-brown in color and very very sticky and tar like. (you can use the mag stiirrer in this process...in fact I would recommend you do to keep it from burning).... When you get a thick tar and have finished
distilling off the solvents (discard solvents properly or save), dissasemble distillation setup, add 500ml acetone to the rb flask with the tar and swirl until dissolved. Crystalization will occur and you can filter off the n-phenethyl-4-piperidone crystals or use a more familar
"solvent" of your choice that is compatible with the synthesis. Once the n-phenethyl-4-piperidone crystals are filtered out of the solvent spread them on a small pyrexx baking pan or similar to enable evaporation. To speed up this process, you can heat the pan very very mildly.
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE PRODUCT HAS A MELTING POINT OF 68 DEG CEL SO YOU WILL POLYMERIZE AND RUIN YOUR PRODUCT IF YOU HEAT TOO MUCH. So be careful during evaporation!! You should have roughly 120 grams of product **N-PHENETHYL-4-PIPERIDONE**...which is the "main" precursor for
the "FENTANYL" synthesis.
(Chief Bee)
05-05-02 04:56
No 305061
Yes, in general terms. It is at step 13 (very suitable) the toxic part of the synthesis begins.
A better writeup can be found at ../rhodium /fentany
(Stoni's sexual toy)
05-05-02 13:36
No 305122
I don't know if all this works or not, but when I see instructions written like this I get slightly annoyed. Example:
> 15- Now take all the mix and wash it with 200ml ch2cl2
> (dichloromethane). Do this twice. This means you need a
> huge flask or container unless you want to divide it up
> in smaller parts....anyway you take the acid/h20 sludge
> mix and empty it into a 2000ml plus flask and then add
> 200ml dichloromethane and put a lid on it. SHAKE THE HELL
> OUT OF IT for a good 30 seconds and then let it seperate
> before you do it again. The stuff you want will be at the
> bottom in the dichloromethane, which is now brownish.
> Pour off the water and put the dichloromethane mix in a
> seperate flask, then repeat this step, adding the
> dichloromethane to the first batch when done.
Sheesh! That person must have some serious issues! Fucking blabbermouths. Why do these dumbasses always have to spell out every obvious fucking detail? Stir counterclockwise at 3:21pm for exactly 78secs at 28.9°C at a rate of 23.4Hz... Arrrgh!
That quote above could have been shortened to 1 fucking sentence making the whole deal much easier to understand! What is wrong with simply saying 'extract twice with 2x200ml DCM'?!?!? See, took me 5 words to say the exact same thing! Fucking tweekers.
I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.
(Hive Addict)
05-05-02 22:17
No 305202
>Fucking tweekers.
Now you say it, it also isn't mentioned when the redP has to be added: before or after you add the DCM. I think that's a serious omission. And there should be more warnings regarding the flammability of DCM. a FOAF of SWIM almost killed himself when he tried to do an extraction when he was smoking.
(Stranger)
05-07-02 01:43
No 305578
I don't know the guy but Labtop's query reminded me that I had a copy of the post. At the same time, I think Osmium's criticism is a little harsh. If it's accuracy you're talking about (particularly with something as potent as fentanyl) then fair enough...blaze away, but the guy was new to the forum and while a little more detailed than some may prefer (and some may think the opposite) I've seen Bees request/demand ever increasing levels of detail, time and time again albeit on procedure many consider child's play but that others may know little about. Isn't that why it's a forum for Bees of all levels of ability? I really think the guy was trying to present a reasonable alternative to Siegfried's original post. If he failed...so be it.
(Chief Bee)
05-07-02 05:07
No 305637
If you can find the original thread where he posted this, you'll see that he thought he was the best human on earth, and critisizing Siegfried and others for not writing in "laymens terms"... A synthesis as dangerous as this one should not be written in a way that makes novices think it is a very easy drug to synthesize cheaply, and earn great money on. The truth is that the odds are AGAINST them with a potent opioid like this - a lot of them trying WILL get hurt, or in the best case scenario completely fails the reaction so that they doesn't ingest highly potent respiratory depressant, probably a lethal lose is present in the fume hood the reaction is taking place in, or dispersed into the room if the hood is dysfunctional or non-existant.
(Hive Addict)
05-08-02 20:46
No 306342
It would also be the best argument in favor of the idiotic prevention measures used by those of the `cleaning department' when an illegal lab is discovered. If somebody dies due to a small amount of fentanyl dust floating in the air after somebody sticks his head in a fumehood... oh my.
And think about the most damaging scenario: an explosion in a fentanyl lab, covering the whole area with fentanyl dust..
I think we should consider ourselves lucky that fentanyl is out of reach for the `redP people'.
(Old P2P Cook)
05-14-02 07:54
No 308244
I have been wondering, as it seems logical to me at least, if a synthesis of fentanyl or analogs is only dangerous in the final stages, where the propionyl group is added to the amine, and a salt is formed. What I mean is, the biological danger of fentanyl synthesis is not present until these stages where the active (potent) compound is brought into being.
This means that all the preceeding stages are normal lab procedure (although a few interesting chemicals are required, yes) and the final stages are the only ones where the extra extra extreme caution need be exercised, such as gloveboxes, etc.
I just wanted a 2nd and possibly 3rd opinion on this notion, if I could get one.
Seems that you are falling behind in your reading. Please try to keep up with the rest of the class.
Post 262861 (terbium: "Re: fentanyl analogs", Novel Discourse)
(Hive Prodigy)
05-14-02 11:24
No 308328
Seems that you are falling behind in your reading. Please try to keep up with the rest of the class.
Not so. My browser settings simply did not allow me to read that post. I hadn't kept up with the thread in some time, and the Hive did not remember all of the new posts since my last reading, only the newest series of posts like it always does, and that post was never displayed to me. I assumed that I was reading all of the new posts to the thread.
PrimoPyro
Vivent Longtemps La Ruche!
(Newbee)
05-18-02 20:48
No 310421
Sounds kind of like Uncle Festers style. You know about hit and run tactics etc. How dangerous is a fent. synth exactly? I mean with DOB there wasnt enough floating around for a threshold dosage. I imagine that transdermally would be the major danger, eg accidently splashing a few milligrams on your wrist, or perhaps accidently licking half a mig. IS this guy for real? I know that one can only make an educated guess, but that is some seriously wacky shit by anyones standards. Also in siegfrieds post no mention is given to the amount of piperidone & phenethylbromide given in the first step. Anyone have any numbers? I dont know what a PCC catalyst is either although I am sure it is not related to PCP. The synth for 4-piperidone in JAC, 1931 is rubbish. Surely there must be an advanced procedure available pertaining to its manufacture. I believe that this chemical is controlled, much more so than RP
. Has anyone here actually attempted purchasing it? Also back to my comments concerning DOB, Rhodium what was that about the glove box? I hadnt realized they were used in the organic lab but im in the dark on this one. I mean a ten fold difference in potency between a pair of compounds makes for a rather extreme change in the precautions taken pertaining to its synthesis.
(Hive Addict)
05-18-02 21:31
No 310437
It's not only the tenfold increase in potency. It's in the effects (respiratory failure). DOB is strong, but relatively safe (partially because it doesn't do much harm, partially because it takes three hours to kick in, which means that you have about an hour to get medical assistance).
(Stranger)
05-20-02 01:21
No 310966
naltrexone/naloxone or other opiate antagonists very quickly reverse respiratory depression and other OD symptoms.
I don't know of an antidote to DOB, certainly working with DOB causes unwanted effects due to tiny amounts of contamination. its just that you don't realise you're standing 6 inches to one side of reality rather than the 6 feet 3.5 mg causes.
(Chief Bee)
05-20-02 07:14
No 311147
its just that you don't realise you're standing 6 inches to one side of reality rather than the 6 feet 3.5 mg causes.
That was a really interesting way of putting that phenomenon into words. I usually think of it as not being in sync with the three-dimensional universe we usually inhabit, but instead drifting off with this 3D space through back and forth in a fifth dimension as we are travelling forward in linear time (fourth dimension).
I once took 0.5mg dob by mistake (dob vial instead of ghb vial, oops) before attending a conference at a big pharmaceutical company, and it was a really interesting experience. I was 'all there' during the whole time, but something I couldn't pinpoint was different with that day...
I urge everyone to go to class on 50mg MDMA, by the way!
(Hive Addict)
05-20-02 12:03
No 311239
If you're a bit careful in attending yourself, you can also feel when you've accidentally taken low dosages of the good stuff. Sometimes it is just a matter of accidentally taking your gloves off, and gathering and cleaning up some glasswork. If you feel a sudden energy that you didn't have half an hour ago, you know its contamination time. Ditto when you try to go to sleep and suddenly you have all this beautiful imagery before your eyes..
>its just that you don't realise you're standing 6 inches to
>one side of reality rather than the 6 feet 3.5 mg causes.
I think I know that feeling, and I'm not sure whether I like it
. If you're standing with one leg in infinity, you also realize that infinity lasts a looong time. Which makes it a very cold and lonely place. (Hive Bee)
05-27-02 13:31
No 314727
I urge everyone to go to class on 50mg MDMA, by the way!
Rhodium, do you mean a class where you have to interact with others/class, or a lecture?
I think that this might not be such a bad piece of advice.
(Chief Bee)
05-27-02 22:35
No 314887
Someone hypothetically used it at a University seminar for discussing the role of drugs* in regard to public health, and I must say that both arguing for ones own standpoint, and in particular listen to and understand the views of the other participants was greatly enhanced.
I think that a dry "sit still and take notes" type of lecture would only make you restless though.
* Yes, that's ironic, isn't it.
(Distinctive Doe)
05-29-02 03:00
No 315390
Someone should have spiked the punch at that lecture!
Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
(Hive Addict)
05-29-02 23:59
No 315749
Ha! I think that by doing that you have given yourself a lifelong improvement in social skills. A lot of things in life are `training issues', and once you have learned them you can forget them, but you can't un-learn them. But some skills require a special setting for them to be trained. For example, color vision needs daylight. Depth perception needs an open view. Social skills need people.
How much of these things are hard-wired, and `forgotten' because we don't really need them to survive?