Lego (Stranger) 05-07-03 13:58 No 431982 |
Article on DMT derivate synths (Rated as: excellent) |
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DOI:10.1016/S0040-4020(00)01091-7 The authors of this article prepare some N,N-Dimethyl-5-substituted-tryptamines via an interesting route. There are two interesting parts: a) The methylation of a 5-substituted tryptamine to a 5-substituted DMT with HCHO (formaldehyde) and NaBH4 (sodium borhydride) (according to the authors "following standard procedures"). The only difference to DMT itself is the CH2SO2N(cyclopropyl) in 5 position.
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raffike (Hive Addict) 05-08-03 07:57 No 432152 |
Great find,i've been always wondering if ... | |||||||
Great find,i've been always wondering if tryptamine could also be methylated with HCHO/NaBH4.NaBH3CN is very expensive... For those about to synth,we salute you |
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Antoncho (Official Hive Translator) 05-10-03 09:50 No 432491 |
NaHSO3? | |||||||
Isn't aniline__>Ph-diazonium__>Ph-hydrazine (very simple, one-pot, bisulfite as a reducing agent) a known process at The Hive??? Will post upon request. Antoncho |
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Lego (Newbee) 05-10-03 11:16 No 432505 |
Yes! Please do so | |||||||
Lego did a quick search: TFSE was fed with: (NH2 or amine) and (NHNH2 or hydrazine) It was briefly mentioned by PrimoPyro in Post 362349 (PrimoPyro: "More Kickass Reactions", Chemistry Discourse):
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Chimimanie (Hive Bee) 05-10-03 13:41 No 432526 |
Yes, post | |||||||
Yes antoncho, post it please, if it is not one of those: ../rhodium /phenylh If you have one synth from nitrobenzene too i would bee happy to read it! And the synth of 4-MeO-phenylhydrazine at rhodium's is not that good, if you have another, more high yielding and/or easy and/or which does not use stannous chloride i would like too know it too. |
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BadMad (Stranger) 06-27-03 05:42 No 442894 |
Standart method & some troubles | |||||||
I've reproduced the method from Tetrahedron, 2001, 57, 1041-1048 using unsubstituted tryptamine. But I've got brown resin on my stirrig rod which hadn't dissolve after addition of HCl (yield ~50-55%). I've tried to recristalize it from boiling hexane (such method is recommended in different sources), but it's amounts were really great ! Then I dissolved the product in DMFA & reprecipitate by acetone. The final pure DMT was OK (by NMR), but yield was less then 15%.. Can anyone help my with a piece of advise? Did anyone use such method? HELP!!! Unknown Chemist |
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Lilienthal (Moderator) 06-27-03 06:10 No 442902 |
How closely did you follow that procedure... | |||||||
How closely did you follow that procedure (mode of addition, temperature, times...)? |
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BadMad (Stranger) 06-27-03 07:08 No 442917 |
Conditions | |||||||
I followed the method carefully, but instead of 15'C I allowed it up to 20'C. All propotions & time were the same. And did you use this procedure? |
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Lilienthal (Moderator) 06-27-03 08:31 No 442931 |
The paper doesn't tell us how fast to add the... | |||||||
The paper doesn't tell us how fast to add the reagents (just 'dropwise'), there might be a difference between 15°C and RT, and there might be an effect of the substituent. There is only one way to find out... Did you monitor the reaction by TLC? Is there a 'main byproduct'? |
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BadMad (Stranger) 06-28-03 01:08 No 443082 |
I didn't control the reaction by TLC. | |||||||
I didn't control the reaction by TLC. As for product, I did. There was an unknown by-product in trace amounts (so I saw it in NMR (H'). And as for speed of dropwising, it was 1 drop per 3 seconds (and I saw that NaBH4 was decomposing in the drop-funnel |
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L42L (Stranger) 06-28-03 14:56 No 443167 |
Comments from the peanut gallery | |||||||
First off, thank you so much BadMan. As far as I know you’re the first to report a go at this. Well I’m no expert (but that won’t stop me) if I was to try this reaction I would keep the two addition solutions as cold as possible (at least as cold as 15 C) especially the NaBH4 solution. Then I would start to vary the addition rates of the solutions. I would for surely keep the reaction at no more than 15 C. Gosh, I sure hope that the sub at the 5 position is not so responsible for the lovely yields. BTW, any bee ever play with a tryptophan decarb via microwave? Any thoughts even? Any bee have any comments regarding their favorite OTC decarb? Best of luck BadMan Lurk |
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Rhodium (Chief Bee) 06-28-03 15:54 No 443172 |
Suggestions | |||||||
I suggest that you do the additions with the reaction flask situated in an ice-bath (making the internal temperature 0-5°C) and then add the solutions dropwise (and even slower if the temperature get closer to 10°C than 5°C), then keep the solution at 0-5°C for another 30 min, and first then allow the temperature to rise to 15°C or so and keep it there for 30-60 min. For the purification, try the workup described in Post 435056 (Rhodium: "DMT from Tryptamine/NaBH3CN/37% HCHO", Tryptamine Chemistry) - it's an easy separation, and you will easily be able to get a product which is crystallizable from hexane. |
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BadMad (Stranger) 07-01-03 07:31 No 443788 |
About Rhodium's suggestion | |||||||
I see... may be it was the point, not mentioned in the article, but very important in syn(temperature control). About solvents & recristallization: 1)I've no opportunity for use of flash chromatography 2)hexane (petroleum ether), ethyl acetate (EtOAc) or am mixture of both--too pore solubility... I'm going to try another way: 3-indolylacetic acid-[1]---(carbodiimidazol+HNEt2)->3 [1]well-known Staabe reaction [2]JAmChemSoc,v78,2582(1956) 1st step is over, but NMR is not yet... |
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Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-01-03 14:47 No 443845 |
DMT recrystallization | |||||||
I would myself recommend petroleum ether (the fraction with bp 60-90°C, it might as you say have too low solubility in the 30-60°C fraction) - others like EtOAc better though, KrZ for example, but I think you will need to concentrate the filtrate and chill that to be able to recover all of your product using that solvent. |
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Rhodium (Chief Bee) 07-09-03 17:40 No 445987 |
EtOAc is apparently no good | |||||||
I take that statement about EtOAc back, I know the amine is soluble in it, but it is apparently a lousy crystallization solvent: Post 270917 (Lilienthal: "Re: DMT synthesis 3", Tryptamine Chemistry) |
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Lego (Hive Bee) 07-12-04 14:53 No 518988 |
In defense of HCHO/NaBH4 (Rated as: excellent) |
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DMT may bee synthesized by dozens of methods1 but the the N,N-dimethylation of tryptamine with HCHO2 is still a very interesting method as all compounds are either commercial available or can be prepared with OTC methods. The reduction agent of choice is Na[BH3CN] (sodium cyanoborohydride) but this reagent is toxic and therefore quite difficult to purchase for many bees and about 5 times more expensive than NaBH4 (sodium borohydride). As the first step of the methylation is the formation of an imine between formaldehyde and tryptamine it is essential that this intermediate is reduced as soon as possible, otherwise it will form a form cyclization product in the so-called Pictet-Spengler reaction. Essential for the formation of the Pictet-Spengler product is the pH of the reaction, usually the Pictet-Spengler is carried in a acidic medium, either by using the hydrochloride salt of the tryptamine, by addition of lewis acids or protic acids3. Another important reaction condition is the temperature. The Pictet-Spengler product is favored by heating, the dimethylation is carried at room temperature or below. Also two competing reductions take place in this reaction, on the one hand the wanted reduction of the imine and on the other hand the reduction of formaldehyde to methanol, therefore first the imine has to bee formed which has to bee reduced immediately, this is why usually the the reagents are added alternately. This parameter (not the temperature but the pH) seems to bee neglected when this reaction is discussed. This might explain the poor yields obtained when trying this method4. As many N,N-dimethylated tryptamines are important pharmaceutical drugs for the treatment of migraine (the so-called triptanes) it was interesting to see how they are synthesized. Sumatriptan for example is synthesized on a industrial scale by the dimethylation of a 5-substituted tryptamine with HCHO/NaBH4. Lego had the possibility to talk to a person who is quite experienced in the field of indoles and harmalines and it became clear that the main product depends on carefully selecting the right reaction conditions. Here are some examples, either from the patent literature or from the scientific literature, in order to show that this method is still worth trying it. Patent WO0134561 More preferably the reducing agent is present in the range of 0.75-3 molar equivalents with respect to the compound of formula V [tryptamine derivative]. [...] Most preferably the formaldehyde equivalent is formaldehyde as an aqeuous solution. [...] More preferably the formaldehyde equivalent is present in the range of 1.9-5 molar equivalents with respect to the compound of formula V [tryptamine derivative]. Suitably the buffer used keeps the pH of the reaction solution between pH 6 and pH 14. Preferably the buffer keeps the pH of the reaction solution between pH 7 and pH 11. More preferably the buffer keeps the pH of the raction between pH 8 and pH 10. Most preferably the buffer is sodium hydrogenphosphate. Suitably the buffer is present in the range of 0.1-10 molar equivalents with respect to the compound of formula V [tryptamine derivative]. Preferably the buffer is present in the range of 0.2-5 molar equivalents with respect to the compound of formula V [tryptamine derivative]. Most preferably the buffer is present in the range of 0.5-3 molar equivalents with respect to the compound of formula V [tryptamine derivative]. [...] Example 5 3-(2-aminoethyl)-N-1H-indole-5-methanesu This material was of suitable quality for conversion into sumatriptan mono-succinate or sumatriptan hemisulphate as described in Patent GB2162522 and Patent EP490689 respectively. [...] Similiar reaction without buffering the reaction: Synthesis of carbon-14 labelled indolic 5HT1 receptor agonists Ian Waterhouse, Karl M. Cable, Ian Fellows, Mark D. Wipperman, Derek R. Sutherland J. Labelled Compd. Radiopharm., 1996, 38(11), 1021-1030 The solid [1.674 mmol of C-14-labeled sumatriptane freebase, 10b] was dissolved in methanol (25 ml) at 0°. Solutions of sodium borohydride (284 mg, 7.5 mmol) in water (1.7 ml) and of formaldehyde (37% aqueous solution, 2.20 ml, 27 mmol) in methanol (1.93 ml) were prepared. An aliquot (180 µl) of the sodium borohydride solution was added to the solution of 10b in methanol every 4 min, followed each time by an aliquot (410 µl) of the formaldehyde solution. When the additions were complete the reaction was stirred at <5° for 1 h. Sodium borohydride (30 mg, 0.79 mmol) and then 5N hydrochloric acid (3.2 ml) were added and the mixture stirred for 5 min then concentrated under reduced pressure to a volume of 10 ml. Water (45 ml) and 2N hydrochlorid acid (25 ml) were then added and the solution stirred for a a further 10 min. The solution was saturated with solid potassium carbonate and the product extracted into methyl isobutyl ketone (4 x 60 ml). The methyl isobutyl ketone solution was decolourised with charcoal and evaporated under reduced pressure to a volume of 5 ml, cooled to 0° and ether (10 ml) was added. After storing at 0° for 30 min, the resulting solid was recovered by filtration and crystallised from isopropanol-water to give sumatriptan free base (172 mg, 35%). References 1. See for example: Classical synthesis by reaction of oxalyl chloride on indole, dialkylamide formation and reduction with LAH: ../rhodium /dmt.det By Fischer indol synthesis: ../rhodium /dmten.h By alkylation of indole grignards with 2-(dimethylamino)-ethyl chloride: ../rhodium /dmt.ind 2. Post 431982 (Lego: "Article on DMT derivate synths", Tryptamine Chemistry) 3. See for example Post 419132 (pashov: "Different reducing agents", Newbee Forum) and Post 431982 (Lego: "Article on DMT derivate synths", Tryptamine Chemistry) for a practical example 4. Post 442894 (BadMad: "Standart method & some troubles", Tryptamine Chemistry) The tendency is to push it as far as you can |
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