what happened to the ecstacy of the 80's

dr.crack · Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:47 am

what happened to the ecstacy of the 80's when you would take 1/2 a tablet and would roll for 8 hours? Does anyone know?

methyl_ethyl · Riedel De Haen

Not to sound like a bitch or anything, but you probably took too much of it.

The molecule has not changed, but your brain/psyche more than likely has. I don't believe in any long term brain damage with MDMA abuse, speaking for myself (as I have abused it like no other). In fact I know I am a better person now because of my experiences with MDMA, with a little help from LSD Wink

.

I think Shulgin explained this phenomenon very well, (unfortunately I don't have the reference). "Losing the Magic".

That being said, it is highly likely that "street" quality MDMA has declined in purity, and mg/tablet. However I suspect if you took 100mg of pure MDMA purchased from Sigma, you still would not get back to that "place" that you remember back in the eighties. I admit, I have had some exceptional MDMA experiences years after the Rave Revolution of the late nineties (my heyday equivalent to your eighties). But I still will never be able to re-live those days. Psychologically it it is not possible, even for those of us that have the ability to hallucinate, in a dark room, whilst under the influence of nothing other than Bupropion HCL, something I have been blessed with since my first LSD experience.

I could normally provide better references and discourse, however I am still coming down off of my yearly MDA dose. I hate MDA, I don't feel like myself for up to a week after dosing. Perhaps this year will be the last year of MDA use........ Again.....

much_love

methyl_ethyl

dr.crack · Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:04 pm

I don't buy that theory. Some friends tried some recently for the first time with 150mg and it lasted good for 2 hours and lingered on for some time. In the 80's, dropped 1/2 at 9 or 10 pm and at 6 am still going. there must have been something else present in the e. Question

CycloKnight · Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:49 pm

Sounds very much like the pills "back in the 80's" were laced with MDA. MDA and MDMA go together like horse'n carriage. They were meant for each other.
A dose of MDMA/MDA in one will keep you going for hours. Say, 90-100mg MDMA and 50-60mg of MDA in one pill. MDA by itself is a bit boring, IMO.

If you feel you have lost the magic, SWIM has the perfect cure, so simple it's stupid. SWIM had recently tried some MA.HCL (yes, speed, medium dose) with 120mg pure mdma after the MA took effect. I should also add that SWIM had never taken MA before, so maybe that contributed.
According to SWIM, the experience was absolutely 100% identical to SWIM's very first and second experiences with MDMA!! Pure MDMA heaven. It was only 3 weeks since the previous binge (0.6 gram, in ~12 hrs) on that substance.
Guys, gals, if you are worried that you have "lost the magic", you should try this for yourself. The MA amplified part of the MDMA effect, the part responsible for "losing the magic", even with pure MDMA.HCl.
Isn't that absurd that a small amount of methedrine could have that effect? As the MDMA started to come on, SWIM was just thinking. It was so identicial to my first e experience it really brought back alot of memories.
SWIM's first e experience, again was with pure MDMA.

SWIM felt as though he'd lost the magic (with 99% pure MDMA), due the many binges (at least 30 grams total, pure MDMA) SWIM has had on this substance over the last 18 months.
SWIM is still a bit gobsmacked over the experience, SWIM though he knew how it all worked, but he was mistaken.
Finding the right MDMA/other drug combo will send you to roll paradise, for a good few hours. MDA is a good "other drug", but MA sure did the trick for me (lost for words) just a week ago.

(edit: UPDATE. Always remember to take it easy and show moderation!! MA comedown with MDMA is bad, very emotional, it seems to greatly amplify the normal MDMA comedown. If overdone, then it may turn "Tuesday Blues" into "Tuesday Paranoia" or the "Tuesday Shakes"...It did for SWIM. Very difficult to function or concentrate while at work. This was the result of an "all nighter" binge on MA, around 150mg MA in total was consumed - way too much for SWIM.
Keep the MA dose around 30mg or lower, or you may well be in for a very rough week ahead of you! With 30, the next week wasn't too bad. Usual. Avoid topping up with MA hours later. SWIM suggests variation is something you save for special occasions. )

CherrieBaby · chouchou

A lot of pills are quite weak in MDMA but have speed and caffein added to them. That's because it's cheaper to mass produce speed than ecstasy. So, to get a decent MDMA roll you often need to take 2 or more pills.

But..., if you take that many you'll get too high a buzz from the speed and caffein. Speed + MDMA can cause neurotoxicity. This is a consequence of the WoD - it creates an environment for the marketing of unsafe drugs. But the shits who created the WoD don't care about you, all that matters to them are their egos and fostering their morality onto everyone else.

Avoid pills. Look for molly, she is you friend and lover.

loki · guinea pig

the consequences of the WoD on available drugs and their purity has lead me to the conclusion that the only antidote to this insanity is the increased prevalence of small scale chemists whose primary interest is in getting pure drug for themselves, and peripherally, for sharing it with their friends. the way those narcoswine have set it all up means that if one produces for the public, after a certain amount of time, the likilihood of one's primo quality goods being taken out of circulation due to incarceration start to sharply increase, in part due to the 'who gives a fuck if they pay' attitude of the large scale operators who are more often than not in the pockets of bent cops.

I personally have come to the conclusion that a pinch of good pure methedrine will lead to a better result in tryptamine experiences for those who have lost the ability to 'experience the magick'... as well as phenethylamines. I don't quite get how mdma could give anyone an 8 hour experience quite frankly. having sampled lab-fresh pure powder of mdma, and got the typical 2-3 hour rush and 4 hours subsequent return to normal, i don't know what anyone is talking about. But in any case, it is my crystallising opinion that dopamine deficiency is the new widespread problem of the population and so of course the most effective and side-effect free drug promoting this is helpful.

we must eventually, as a society, stop ignoring the dopamine issue eventually, because it is very clear now that it is very near to being a universal issue, and what the hell is causing it???

CycloKnight · Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:02 pm

I also don't really understand what the "8 hour roll" talk is all about. I'm not clear if some people can actually roll that long on MDMA, are actually taking another drug and don't know it, or roll 8 hours on their first few rolls after they burn up excess serotonin reserves but never again have such an experience.

I can say that the duration of my first few rolls bordered on several hours long.
But, I now know that the methylamine.HCl that was used in the synth contained a high percentage of ammonium chloride, which would have resulted in a mixture of MDA/MDMA after reductive amination, perhaps 30% MDA!
This was the result of the hexamine/HCl - methylamine synth. It is a bit on the finicky side, and without chlorform it's difficult to separate the methylamine HCl from the ammonium chloride.
The result was one hell of a roll, for quite a few hours. I recall peaking for nearly 5 hours the first few times, with fairly small doses (less than 100mg). I do not recall being trippy, as I tend to get now with larger doses of MDA. This is my point, just a little MDA can really spice up MDMA, at least for some people. I believe this ESPECIALLY applies to the first experiences.
But, I am convinced this is the result of "first time e-xperience" + MDA presence that is responsible for that. Actually, my very first dose was about 70mg (I was afraid, okay?), and I rolled for quite a few hours off that.
It may be more applicable to people who have never been exposed to any amphetamines before.
I gave a little MDMA to a friend who had never taken it before, and he didn't like it all that much...I was very surprised, but he had taken speed a number of times before, years earlier. Maybe this had something to do with it? I don't know. He also smokes marijuana quite a bit, so that could be another reason.
It's a complex puzzle to try and decipher so much hear'say & dancefloor pharmacology to develop a proper understanding of exactly what is responsible for the "amazing pills" experience often reported.

THE MOON RULES --1 · voted for the moon

all you have to do is take a look over at ectasydata.org to find out all the crap thats ending up in pills. Seems tons of MA HCL and MDE are ending up on the street level as "extasy". Seems more likely that what you thought was pure mdma was somthing else or a combination of things. Because of all the confusion and dis-information regarding pills (that pills are cut with herion and all that other b.s.) I'm too afraid of getting somthing I don't want, and therefore miss out. And just a thought, if you think you've "lost the magic" with mdma, what do you think bringing MA HCL will do?, like a sledgehammer on your neurons. Bee carefull and healthy.

CherrieBaby · chouchou

Those MDA rolls can be wierd and fun. I remember the first time I did it (pills bought from a dealer and sold to me just as 'pills'). I thought it was MDMA. About 3 hours after dropping it I was tripping and not longer able to stand. It was a nice trip, I was still completely in control of my mind even with the visuals; still able to talk rationally (much like you do on MDMA). Before the trip started it was like MDMA but wilder.

I agree that MDA, MDA/MDMA, MDA/MDMA/speed or even just MDA/speed could give someone an 8 hour roll. If the dose of MDA was low (say 25:25:50 MDA:MDMA:speed) you might not notice the visuals too much.

My MDMA rolls are always: 1 hour before it starts, about 3 hours up. 5 hours after dropping it, I'm shattered and in need of recovery.

CycloKnight · Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:21 pm

Just an update to my earlier post on this thread.

If using speed with MDMA, keep the dose very low. As low as possible.

SWIM has found that MDMA and MA are in certain way, cross tolerant.
This means that if you start taking both, then MDMA on its own will seem weaker.
In time, it may ruin MDMA for you.
According to SWIM, if consuming MDMA then you must wait quite a long while since the last time MA was consumed..

In terms of quality of the roll, the M in MDMA, will never compete with the M in MA. The M in MA is too overwhelming. And to SWIM, the M in both seem quite similar. After taking MA, waiting 3 weeks and taking MDMA, seemed apparent that there is some M missing from the MDMA - not too good. Poorer quality roll than was expected. This must be as a result of a short MA binge involving about 5 doses over 24 hours, 3 weeks previous. That binge only kept SWIM awake, SWIM never got high, just stayed up all night finishing up work. No real euphoria was ever experienced (even though tolerance developed), this is probably due to SWIM's past history of weekend MDMA use. Comedown - lasted for a week.

Combining the two was an interesting experiment, but not one that SWIM is likely to repeat.

anime · Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:50 am

Combining mdma and methedrine increase the levels of dopamine and can potentially increase the neurotoxic effects of mdma. Becareful when combing the two, personally I don't recommend it. (Moon covered this already).

swim is moving on to chemicals which are safer for the brain Smile

.

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

i can highly suggest using prozac (fluoxetine) when the comedown from MDMA/MDA sets in. saves you a lot of tuesday blues! i even took prozac like 12 hours AFTER the comedown started, and it still had a noticable effect - after half an hour, instead of looking grim, i smiled and had the urge to laugh. plus, fluoxetine will save your serotonergic neurons, too!

Sandmeyer · Sun May 22, 2005 3:01 pm

The time course of damaging events in rats can be seen by administering SSRIs, such as fluoxetine and citalopram, after MDMA. Pretreatment with fluoxetine (Prozac) or citalopram (Celexa) has been shown to block the neurotoxicity of MDMA (Battaglia, 1988; Schmidt 1987; 1990; Shankaran, 1999a), probably by blocking interactions of MDMA with SERT. More interestingly, fluoxetine remains almost fully protective if given 3 or 4 hours after MDMA. By 4 hours, most of the MDMA-induced release of 5-HT and DA has already occurred (Gough, 1991; Hiramatsu, 1990) and increases in extracellular free radicals (Colado, 1997b; Shankaran, 1999a) and lipid peroxidation (the alteration of fat molecules by free radicals) (Colado, 1997a) can be measured. Nevertheless, the administration of fluoxetine at this point decreases subsequent extracellular oxidative stress (Shankaran, 1999a) and long-term 5-HT depletions (Schmidt, 1987; Shankaran, 1999a). Fluoxetine will still be partially protective if given 6 hours after MDMA but has no protective effect 12 hours after administration (Schmidt, 1987). This shows that neurotoxic MDMA regimens initiate a series of events that become increasingly damaging between 3 and 12 hours after drug administration in rats.

Complete text at: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_neurotoxicity1.shtml#timecourse

DjTime · Chemical Dj

Well obviously Sandmeyer and Star have never taken MDA or MDMA so actually they shouldnt have a say really in what is posted in this thread. Anyone who "KNOWS" about this compound knows that if you take 5 HTP during, and the next day it is never as bad as it would be without it. I swear this question is asked every other week in the exact wording. NOTHING!!!! the extacy of the 80's is still around in fact it's probably better today. It's still the same molecule. No amount of hairspray or micheal jackson molestation allegations can change it. It will always be the same molcule. Just lay off the 1G a weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And joe is the smart one speaking here " I take lethal combos and im still here"

meme · Mon May 23, 2005 11:34 am

SWIM can eat 1 g mdma at once or almost at once, with no hangover, yet a small dose with methedrine, or a bunch of methedrine causes a sever and identical hangover.

SWIM has also had pills strong enough that 1/8 gave a strong blow up experiance (consider this with the prior comment Smile

These are simply not drug-dealer-shit-on-the-world pills, and are simply not for profit (this was many years ago, not in the 80s though). Sometimes it is a trick also though; one of the strongest pills SWIM has ever seen were mixed in a large batch of pma pilss, 1 super magic for several or many super tragic. The magic was the sample . . .

If someone can do something, then eventually someone will. I would simply think that the pills were very strong, and hard, so that they were just a little time release.

I agree with IA that the combination of the two is at least a bit more risky, and that 5htp is a serious ally.

Can you give us some more ifo? These pills of the 80s . . . what size were they? Little dutch-sized pressies? Old school wafes? How did you take them? Chem them, swallow? Has the settting changed? SWIM used to blow up until the club closed if the pilz were any good . . . midnight to six or seven and then still some at the afterparty . . . music, friends, and adventure can cause SWIM to feel like he's blowing up anyhow Wink